2G Won't start after Fuel pressure regulator Diaphragm replaced

[Sam's GSX]

over 2 months ago, I was sitting in the car (1997 eclipse GSX) Idling and it randomly died, I saw a fuel leak at the AFPR and thought the hose had given out, but when I took apart the regulator, the Diaphragm had torn, I have replaced the Diaphragm but the car still won't start. It acts like it wants to start for a moment, then just continues cranking.

I went to boot up my old tuning laptop but it may be retired, I couldn't get it on and I haven't used DSMlink in a few years. I downloaded it on this work laptop and took a few cranking logs (attached) if you would like me to adjust or add and graphs, let me know, and I will take new logs.

Let me know if you have any advise or help, It would be greatly appreciated, I'm slightly stumped on this one for the time being.

(let me know if the logs didn't post correctly)

Thank you.

 

[pauleyman]

Start with the repair. Does it have a fuel pressure gauge? Fire up the fuel pump manually with car iff. See how fuel pressure reacts. Make sure no fuel is flowing out of the pressure source.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Okay will do, and yes I have a gauge at the regulator.

When cranking, it reads 42.5 or so (someone else was reading it while I cranked)

I just tested the fuel pump manually (turning it on with DSMlink) and it does come on, and the pressure at the regulator is about 45psi.

I have cranked the engine a good amount, including when I had the massive fuel leak, could that have caused damage from cranking with the leak?

 

[pauleyman]

Worst that could happen is you dumped a little fuel. You sure you didn't bump anything ignition related during the repair?

 

[Sam's GSX]

I will double check everything spark related tomorrow and make sure I am getting spark on all cylinders.

Thank you sir

 

[chrysler kid]

vacuum line hooked up correctly?

diaphragm wasnt installed backwards was it?

 

[Sam's GSX]

I did steal a vacuum line for my other car, but I replaced it before I attempted to start it, and I believe it was installed correctly, I will check both those things when I get home, thank you

 

[curt-s]

You wouldn't be able to install the diaphragm backwards due to the ball that needs to sit in the seat as well as the spring seat on the opposing side would no longer align the spring itself. There'd be absolutely no way to adjust the fuel pressure anymore to get that 42.5psi (not 45; you need to re-adjust it) when just the pump was running either. Most AFPRs are identical in their base form, the Fuelab one is no different.

Feel free to disassemble it to reassure yourself but if you can hold 42.5 at pump run, the problem lies elsewhere. The engine should continue to idle with the vacuum line off too, it would just run rich and closed loop may not adjust that back into range. I've done it many, many times. Your open loop would be absolutely screwed but we're not concerned about that right now.

By dealing with the AFPR you may have inadvertently disturbed wiring that was on its last straw. I'd start looking in the area around the AFPR for ignition-related wiring and check their insulation and connectors, just for good measure.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Okay that sounds good, Its an old car and that definitely could be the case, I will go over everything in that area this afternoon and let you know what I find. Thank you sir

 

[evil_eagletalon]

Have you held the throttle blade WIDE OPEN during cranking? The intake manifold/ cylinders may be flooded and cant ignite.

 

[curt-s]

There's more than enough air in the IM to start a motor even after significant cranking. An intake manifold couldn't be flooded from cranking as the intake valves would dump that fuel right into the cylinder every time they opened. Fuel vapour within the cylinder would light that puppy off pretty quick.

Is there a reason your MAF compensation is down across the board, most negatively at base 0Hz? Type is still set to stock and I've been on SD for years so I might be missing something but that seems excessive to me to have to pull so much all across the board with 18% removed at 0hz. Your TPS volts are under norm too but these two are things that can be adjusted later if necessary (and so that you can stop using TPS scaling)


Your first log shows that it was trying a couple times to turn over, with sudden jumps of RPM. The second log has nothing whatsoever.
I'm thinking it's a spark issue OR you're not actually getting fuel into the cylinders, so it's injector-related or resistor pack/wiring (Low-Z I presume) issue.
If each spark plug has the noticeable smell of fuel after cranking, you know you're getting at least some fuel. Even a little should be enough to raise the RPM. Maybe not even to run, but a weak bang is better than no bang.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Hmmm, okay that would make sense, I will check all the spark plugs as well.
I do hear the tic pulse from the injectors when I put a screwdriver on the and put my ear to it while someone cranks the car, is there anything else I should do to check the cylinders are getting fuel?

And yes, it seems like the first first time I attempt to start it after it has sat for a while, it almost tries to start for a moment, but after that, it basically doesn't.

It's been a few years, but I have adjusted Maf comp for the different parts on the vehicle (4" fp intake, borg Warner turbo, etc) I can revert it back and see if that helps at all as well.

(Sorry, work got hectic and I wasn't able to work on it yesterday, I'm hoping to have some free time today)

 

[Sam's GSX]

I finally got around to checking some things on the car.

I pulled all the spark plugs and hooked them back into the wires, and layed them on the exposed metal on the valve cover, and got someone to crank the car, all 4 are firing in sequence. (I also unplugged the fuel injectors so it didn't dump fuel)

The only new info I have is that the tops of the cylinders have a good amount of what looks like black carbon on them.

I may be remembering this incorrectly, but when it first died, I tried to crank it a few times, and on the last time, I think I heard a single clunk, so I stopped attempting.

I had tried cranking it at later times and did not hear anything, but I'm curious what that could have been, the timing belt still has tension, so I'd be surprised if it jumped timing.

I'm also surprised that I may have heard a clunk, because even with a large fuel leak, I'm not sure how that would damage the engine.

With spark out of the way, and fuel 98% checked (other than seeing the injectors spray) should I start looking elsewhere?

Is it possible the injectors are damaged or the issue? They are getting fuel, and ticking.

Any help or advice is appreciated greatly

 

[chrysler kid]

if you have fuel and spark you need to check for air

its time for a compression test. or you need to check timing first then do a compression test

you could have blown your motor and the fuel issue was just a random occurrence. how is the oil level in the car, coolant level?

 

[Sam's GSX]

Oil and coolant were/are good.
I just ordered a compression tester. Since the engine will be cold, do you know what numbers I should be looking for? I will know if it's extremely low, and I can find my old numbers from when I first built the engine, and see how far off they are.
(2.3 stroker)

 

[chrysler kid]

im not sure what your specific numbers should be, I believe brand new the 7 bolt 2g motors had 180 psi, and a good high mileage one should be around 160psi

my main concearn would be the engine jumped timing. you could take the upper timing cover off and take a picture of the belt to make sure there is not excessive slack in the belt

if timing was off, or the motor was hurt you would see a large discrepancy between pressure ratings on each cylinder. one cylinder would show 140 psi and the next one would show 80 psi. for the engine to run properly compression should be very similar across the cylinder with less than a 10% variation, and the motor needs atleast 100 psi to burn fuel properly to combust

 

[Sam's GSX]

Okay, fantastic info!
I have removed the upper timing cover and inspected/felt the timing belt, everything looks proper there.
I will update with compression details once I have tested.

 

[Sam's GSX]

Sorry for the delay, I just got around to checking some things on it (work has been killing me)

I did a compression test, obviously the engine is cold, but the test still did not go well.

my first numbers were this.

1. 60
2. 45.
3. 20
3. 0

I then tested it with the dip stick out and felt for air coming out of the tube, and there was air every time regardless of which cylinder I was testing.

1. 5
2. 45
3. 20
4. 0

I am not sure how this happened, especially because the issue was a fuel leak, and the car was running fine before that.
I also looked at the coolant and oil (picture attached of the oil) and they both looked fine, does not look like they are mixed with each other.

As a side note, on cylinder 3, it makes an air leak noise every time it rotates, I couldn't find specifically where.

Any advise on where I should investigate is helpful, it seems like maybe rings, seeing as air is coming out of the dip stick tube while cranking, but I could definitely be wrong.

Thank you all

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[chrysler kid]

Sorry for the delay, I just got around to checking some things on it (work has been killing me)

I did a compression test, obviously the engine is cold, but the test still did not go well.

my first numbers were this.

1. 60
2. 45.
3. 20
3. 0

I then tested it with the dip stick out and felt for air coming out of the tube, and there was air every time regardless of which cylinder I was testing.

1. 5
2. 45
3. 20
4. 0

I am not sure how this happened, especially because the issue was a fuel leak, and the car was running fine before that.
I also looked at the coolant and oil (picture attached of the oil) and they both looked fine, does not look like they are mixed with each other.

As a side note, on cylinder 3, it makes an air leak noise every time it rotates, I couldn't find specifically where.

Any advise on where I should investigate is helpful, it seems like maybe rings, seeing as air is coming out of the dip stick tube while cranking, but I could definitely be wrong.

Thank you all

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you must likely jumped timing due to an improperly adjusted timing belt tensioner

with zero compression you should be hearing abnormal noises when cranking the motor over, like hollow popping noises coming out of the tail pipe. though with zero psi in one cylinder it might not make any noise. but it should really sound abnormal when trying to start the motor as it spins

 

[babyviper]

You could have flooded the engine and the fuel washing the cylinders could have gave you those numbers. Unplug the injectors and crank for a while, see if it makes a difference.

 

[curt-s]

First, with those kind of numbers, I'd do a compression test on another engine you know is at least reasonably good. That way you can validate the tester itself.
A valve can be partially open and still give you better than 0. Zero is catastrophic failure territory and unrelated to fuel wash.

It takes a lot of fuel all around the ring to completely remove the oil and with an intake injection system; most of the fuel hits the back of the intake valve and drips in as intake port velocity is too low to suck in and most of that sits in the piston dome until it's allowed to burn.

Okay, fantastic info!
I have removed the upper timing cover and inspected/felt the timing belt, everything looks proper there.
I will update with compression details once I have tested.

You say you removed the covers and felt the belt but did you check if all timing marks were still aligned where they need to be?

 

[chrysler kid]

you really need to get down in the motor and line up the timing marks at to dead center i promise its not as huge of a task as it may mentally seem. remove the alternator power steering and ac belts and remove the lower timing cover after you remove the harmonic balancer. you need to visibly check all timing marks line up

if you want to inspect for damage then you can use a small borescope to inspect inside the cylinders for damage.

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[Sam's GSX]

you guys are amazing, thank you so much for all the advise.

I will confirm that the tester is working properly.

I will remove the full timing cover and make sure the timing marks are all lined up, that could be the issue.

also, that camera is a great investment and will help me tremendously.

I will update with further info as soon as I have gotten around to checking those things