2G rear knuckle differences?

[ileagleracing]

So I've known for a while that somehow I ended up with different lower shock mounting bolts in my rear knuckles.
Wasn't an issue until going from 18x10.5 15et Enkei RPF1 to 18x11 15et Konig Hypergram.
Only had the new setup on for 2 runs before the center diff shit the bed, but now getting things back together I noticed shredded rubber on the spring perch on one side and a nice groove in the tire.
Can anyone tell me what chassis' knuckles might have the bolt with the longer conical seat?
My other AWD car has bolts with the smaller conical seat.

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[Dusty Landrum]

You may want to partner with @EC17PSE since he produces an aftermarket version of the mount and may know the difference between the awd/fwd rear mount bolt.

 

[EC17PSE]

So i took specs from both AWD and FWD as I have both knuckles. Both later deeper GB version and both were the same. I have not spec'd the early ones so those knuckles.

My version uses an external thread so depending on the amount you need to push the shock out by and the width of the shock body itself you may be able to space it on mine as long as you maintain some full threads on the nyloc nut of course. Need any measurements just let me know and i can grab some for you

 

[EC17PSE]

Now I have woken up and read it again your specs are going to alter the wheels and setup. So the NEW wheel specs 11" are going to be 6.3mm closer to the shock vs the old 10.5" wheel. Also stick out 6.3mm aka poke. So rubbing is mostly going to be part of the setup choice. Looking at the thicker taper on the shock pin thats not going to adjust the shock angle a huge amount and as your hitting nearly over half way up its shock movement would be minimal vs at the base which is likely still only a small amount. Unless they machined the other version of knuckle differently, either longer or something else.

I have a GA chassis at work for mocking up so i will have to grab a shaft from that to check that and also the machining in the knuckle to see if its in a different depth or so from the GB knuckle.

 

[fourgsixty3]

I measured a 2ga FWD, 2ga AWD and 2gb AWD pins and found no major differences between them.

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I also installed them all into a 2gb knuckle just for shits and giggles and to remove all doubt.

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[ileagleracing]

Maybe the top bolt in my photo is from an Avenger or something else built in Normal, IL?
I messed up the internal threads on my old one, and bought a replacement knuckle just for the standoff bolt. Didn't notice it was different until later.
Other than the conical seat, they are identical.
My shocks also have a stepped bushing/sleeve to make sure the shock centerline is as far inboard as possible.
I've cleaned up most of the shredded tire, but you can see where it was rubbing.

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[fourgsixty3]

Is it rubbing on the knuckle also? I'm not sure the different shock pin is the issue here. With a larger seat than OEM I would think it would place the mounting point farther away from the knuckle giving you more clearance, no? All things being equal on the other side I'm trying to wrap my brain around this and the only things I can come up with are:

1. Camber, especially under compression.

2. Bad bushing at the top of the knuckle.

3. Bad wheel bearing.

 

[fourgsixty3]

Is it just my eyes or is there something going on with the spring as in it's not centered?

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[ileagleracing]

Is it rubbing on the knuckle also? I'm not sure the different shock pin is the issue here. With a larger seat than OEM I would think it would place the mounting point farther away from the knuckle giving you more clearance, no? All things being equal on the other side I'm trying to wrap my brain around this and the only things I can come up with are:

1. Camber, especially under compression.

2. Bad bushing at the top of the knuckle.

3. Bad wheel bearing.

Yes, the one with the larger seat moves the shock inboard, away from the tire. The opposite side with the normal 2G Bolt is where I have the issue.
The relationship of the lower spring perch to the Knuckle, to the hub, wheel and tire does not change with suspension movement. That is clearly shown in the uniform groove on the tire.
The spring may not be *perfectly* coaxial with the shock, but there is no lateral movement on the spring perches

Not fully threading in the "Normal" bolt will get me where I want to be, but without the the conical seat mating to the countersink in the knuckle, that is a failure waiting to happen.

 

[ileagleracing]

Because I work remote, and a picture is worth a 1000 words...
Both are fully threaded in, but only hand tight.

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[fourgsixty3]

Ahh. That makes sense. I thought you were having issues on the side with the odd sized pin. So basically you're looking to find another pin with a larger seat.

 

[EC17PSE]

I had slight touching on my tire once, This was when I was messing with shock heights and setting up the bump stop with dual springs. This made my lower spring perch lower THUS wider at that point and it would rub slightly if my camber was a lot. I had to redo the setup anyway as i changed some bits and was setup for the old rear end weight plus I messed with camber a bit more also. Since I work out my camber gain and loss in the bumpsteer test I know what I am going to see throughout its motion range and that's when I can adjust camber to suit and see if touching issues will be part of the change, I see if i can find away around it then before i proceed.

It happened this time because i made several changes and drove it without doing the proper adjustments and caught it later which is just bad on my part as I know better then this.

excessive camber will cause knuckle / perch touching but it also depends on the coilovers as shock body, spring length, setup all vary and will differ from brand to chassis specifics.

remember the wheel can adjust through its range and camber will pull it into the shock under compression. yes it can go the other way also IF the arms are setup where camber loss is induced IE the lower arms go past level THIS is camber loss after. The shocks lower mounting is fixed but pivots on that bush and the arms are not, if you took off the upper arm and pushed the knuckle you will be able to move the top of the knuckle in and that's the small camber it see's on the upper arm.

Best advice here is to whip the spring off. wheels back on and jack it through its motion from static height to compression, you will find your issue here in this test as I did and can adjust to suit. I did make a video on setting up coilovers properly which shows how close mine where but i forget if i took pics also along side it as was some time ago now. I will get this done at some point ready to upload for people to view.

If later you find you don't want to adjust the setup my pins will allow you to add a few small spacers to space the shock out some. depending on the length of the shock base you could get a few extra MM in spacing. just an idea to keep in mind as the taper will still lock in place

 

[EC17PSE]

Because I work remote, and a picture is worth a 1000 words...
Both are fully threaded in, but only hand tight.

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yeah that is 100% not a DSM shock pin. never seen one stick out that far before.

 

[fourgsixty3]

Looks like maybe a 3g pin. Here's a pic I was able to swipe from a forum. The seat definitely looks larger.

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[ileagleracing]

yeah that is 100% not a DSM shock pin. never seen one stick out that far before.

It came out of a used 2G rear knuckle, pretty sure I threw the knuckle itself away, I just wanted the shock pin.
time to start looking up avenger/sebring part numbers

 

[EC17PSE]

Looks like maybe a 3g pin. Here's a pic I was able to swipe from a forum. The seat definitely looks larger.

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I have a customer with a 3G set i think he said he bought them for and not heard back from it since. if they changed it i wonder when from? they did not need any more taper strength.

 

[ileagleracing]

Looks like maybe a 3g pin. Here's a pic I was able to swipe from a forum. The seat definitely looks larger.

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Brilliant, that looks like what I need. funny that I think of the Avenger/Sebring before acknowledging there was a 3G Eclipse.

 

[EC17PSE]

It came out of a used 2G rear knuckle, pretty sure I threw the knuckle itself away, I just wanted the shock pin.
time to start looking up avenger/sebring part numbers

super weird one. junkyard find i think

 

[ileagleracing]

super weird one. junkyard find i think

Honestly Bobby,
This 3G style should be the default for your shock pin, the bigger seat moves it enough for a shock with 2.5 dia springs out of the way for max clearance.
Is your shock pin aluminum or steel?

 

[EC17PSE]

Honestly Bobby,
This 3G style should be the default for your shock pin, the bigger seat moves it enough for a shock with 2.5 dia springs out of the way for max clearance.
Is your shock pin aluminum or steel?

i made mine from alloy steel so 4340 EN24T, super strong. i did external threads vs internal for more strength and the fact the seize inside over time and snap so i revised the design to be my specification

 

[ileagleracing]

I was hoping it was steel. Would you do a pair with a larger seat? V2 design improvement?

 

[fourgsixty3]

It's too bad Mitsubishi didn't sell these separately so I can't look up the part numbers and cross reference but I believe early 2000s galants used the larger ones as well. Here's a shitty photo of one from a 2003 Galant which was hacked up a bit.

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[EC17PSE]

It's too bad Mitsubishi didn't sell these separately so I can't look up the part numbers and cross reference but I believe early 2000s galants used the larger ones as well. Here's a shitty photo of one from a 2003 Galant which was hacked up a bit.

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US galant might of got them but i believe the EU galant used the same knuckle as the DSM got. i would have to re dig my galant rear knuckles out again

 

[EC17PSE]

I was hoping it was steel. Would you do a pair with a larger seat? V2 design improvement?

They all machined, coated so not ready to make any more yet till the batch runs out

 

[fourgsixty3]

They all machined, coated so not ready to make any more yet till the batch runs out

What about a conical spacer? Perhaps too much of a hassle to make but it might be an opportunity to branch out to the 3g market as well Bobby.

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