2G Beating a dead horse. Help me choose a 100mm crank.

[fourgsixty3]

So I'm slowly trying to collect parts for my 2.3L build and I think it's time to pull the trigger on a 100mm crankshaft. I've read everything I could find here and Evo forums and I think I've narrowed it down to a forged unit based on some of the recommendations here, although there are many more choices available in the billet variety. I'm not against going with a billet crank either so I guess I'd consider everything at this point. Power goals are 550-650whp. Forged cranks I have found so far include the OEM, Eagle and Callies. I believe Manley used to make one but I don't think they do anymore. I was also looking at K1 as they're a bit lighter with a good price but it is a billet piece. Again, I'm not against using a billet crank as everyone is doing it these days. Any help is appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[donniekak]

The eagle cranks are fine at that power level.

We’ve pushed the stock 6 bolt crank over 1300hp, but the stock 100mm units break well before that. I’ve seen 16g cars break a stock 100mm crank in a manual car.

 

[EC17PSE]

callies will be a good wat for price, skip k1 and go straight to molnar! tom molnar used to own or run K1 and they had issues with quality and sizing and i do still hear it now and then, so if the k1 was an option then i say molnar there. but callies is proven and does what alot of people ask. forged will be alot cheaper and some say they are stronger, i did a lot and i mean ALOT of research on it all and while i agree with the process alot of people stated billet can also be strong or stronger due to the process but its likely splitting hairs, billet costs more mostly due to the process finish vs forged.

the molnar crank is a piece of art and only second to winberg cranks!

what ever crank you opt for make sure it has straight shot oiling holes!

 

[fourgsixty3]

callies will be a good wat for price, skip k1 and go straight to molnar! tom molnar used to own or run K1 and they had issues with quality and sizing and i do still hear it now and then, so if the k1 was an option then i say molnar there. but callies is proven and does what alot of people ask. forged will be alot cheaper and some say they are stronger, i did a lot and i mean ALOT of research on it all and while i agree with the process alot of people stated billet can also be strong or stronger due to the process but its likely splitting hairs, billet costs more mostly due to the process finish vs forged.

the molnar crank is a piece of art and only second to winberg cranks!

what ever crank you opt for make sure it has straight shot oiling holes!

Thanks. I was reading up about Molnar and Winberg. I know Winberg is expensive but you get what you pay for. It may be over kill for my goals though. There isn't much out there about Molnar but I've read that they're good as well. It will come down to quality and price. I thought about Eagle as well but I read that the quality is hit or miss.

 

[EC17PSE]

Thanks. I was reading up about Molnar and Winberg. I know Winberg is expensive but you get what you pay for. It may be over kill for my goals though. There isn't much out there about Molnar but I've read that they're good as well. It will come down to quality and price. I thought about Eagle as well but I read that the quality is hit or miss.

yeah the winberg is crazy money but they have aimed at 1 purpose and thats racing, so they solely sell based on that alone

molnar might not be about as much on forums but they do have plenty of threads i found while on my search for them. you can also ring tom up and have a chap and he is a nice chap. they are light but just not as light as a winberg as they do not have as big of holes nor any gun drilling through the centerline. its still a good chunk of money though ( what HALF ) of a WB crank.

eagle are hit and miss, they ALWAYS need balancing! just remember that.

 

[donniekak]

Billet is a weaker process than forging. Billet cranks gain strength through material choice only.

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yeah the winberg is crazy money but they have aimed at 1 purpose and thats racing, so they solely sell based on that alone

molnar might not be about as much on forums but they do have plenty of threads i found while on my search for them. you can also ring tom up and have a chap and he is a nice chap. they are light but just not as light as a winberg as they do not have as big of holes nor any gun drilling through the centerline. its still a good chunk of money though ( what HALF ) of a WB crank.

eagle are hit and miss, they ALWAYS need balancing! just remember that.

The last 3 eagle crank strokers I built all made at least 700hp and the crank was fine right out of the box.

They had an issue 10-15 years ago with the journal sizes and straightness. I haven’t seen an issue since.

Manley stopped making one of the 100mm cranks they made because they break.

As far as big fancy name billet or forged cranks, the poster has no need to spend the extra money on a crank.

callies will be a good wat for price, skip k1 and go straight to molnar! tom molnar used to own or run K1 and they had issues with quality and sizing and i do still hear it now and then, so if the k1 was an option then i say molnar there. but callies is proven and does what alot of people ask. forged will be alot cheaper and some say they are stronger, i did a lot and i mean ALOT of research on it all and while i agree with the process alot of people stated billet can also be strong or stronger due to the process but its likely splitting hairs, billet costs more mostly due to the process finish vs forged.

the molnar crank is a piece of art and only second to winberg cranks!

what ever crank you opt for make sure it has straight shot oiling holes!

Billet is a cheaper process for small product runs. A set of dies for a crank forging can be $100,000’s, not to mention the machine they go in.

Billet stuff started out as the cheapest way to make metal prototypes and small batch runs.

 

[EC17PSE]

The last 3 eagle crank strokers I built all made at least 700hp and the crank was fine right out of the box.

They had an issue 10-15 years ago with the journal sizes and straightness. I haven’t seen an issue since.

Manley stopped making one of the 100mm cranks they made because they break.

As far as big fancy name billet or forged cranks, the poster has no need to spend the extra money on a crank.

you are correct the price is not required for the needs. oem would be ok but then new oem costs alot so by then you might as well opt for something better that can give you room to grow more if required.

it was last year i was in a post i think on FB where the eagle cranks needed a balance as it was a bit out. with the rep eagle has if i used one i would make sure it was gone through to be perfect! but it is cheap! cheap cheap! its why i personally would opt for the callies crank, its not much more and has a great setup for strength and price

Billet is a cheaper process for small product runs. A set of dies for a crank forging can be $100,000’s, not to mention the machine they go in.

Billet stuff started out as the cheapest way to make metal prototypes and small batch runs.

small production yes it is plus you can use different materials forged cannot use! a lot less likely to get weak forgings with billet. both work and they still work well to date in either form as process has gotten a lot better and materials also have come along way now

 

[donniekak]

you are correct the price is not required for the needs. oem would be ok but then new oem costs alot so by then you might aswel opt for something better that can give you room to grow more if required.

it was last year i was in a post i think on FB where the eagle cranks needed a balance as it was a bit out. with the rep eagle has if i used one i would make sure it was gone through to be perfect! but it is cheap! cheap cheap! its why i personally would opt for the callies crank, its not much more and has a great setup for strength and price

I don’t use the book of faces, but I’ve built 100’s of 4g’s, the best of which ran 7’s in a 3000gt.

I’ve also personally seen broken stock 100mm cranks at way less than the op’s goal, the 100mm cranks only have a few mm of overlap.

 

[EC17PSE]

I don’t use the book of faces, but I’ve built 100’s of 4g’s, the best of which ran 7’s in a 3000gt.

I’ve also personally seen broken stock 100mm cranks at way less than the op’s goal, the 100mm cranks only have a few mm of overlap.

its not just faces these days i use it as i get to chat to so many group members across the world so it helps me stay in contact with everyone.

if the oem one is also a problem then it likely is best to opt for a better version rated higher with better rads and materials. ticks all the correct boxes and peach of mind

 

[fourgsixty3]

Billet is a weaker process than forging. Billet cranks gain strength through material choice only.

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I am leaning towards forged because of this. I'm not sure saving a few pounds with a billet crank is worth the risk. I think Callies comes in at 36lbs. Not sure what the Eagle weighs but probably about the same.

 

[EC17PSE]

I am leaning towards forged because of this. I'm not sure saving a few pounds with a billet crank is worth the risk. I think Callies comes in at 36lbs. Not sure what the Eagle weighs but probably about the same.

If you read up on motortrend i think it is, one of the callies guys says billet is stronger. Callies do both so they will see both areas.

There is so much info on this its so very confusing. Loads say forged, loads say billet. They talk nascar and F1 being billet. Then others and it just gets you back to square one again and all confused i think in the end it comes down to what you want and budget.

I nearly got the callies. Then last minute was told to get the molnar. The evo guys has used them in many builds now and he has them from 800+hp builds and racing with revs so he seemes confident in them to handle it and work well. He builds quality evo's and highly rated in the UK so i went with his insite based on what his racing has shown him.

I think there is no wrong or right way. I was happy with either myself. They will hold more then enough for our plans. So ideally pick the least expensive generally

 

[fourgsixty3]

Thank you very much gentlemen. I'd rather support the little guy/ US made (is there such a thing?) but Winberg is just too expensive. I can pick up crank, pistons and rods for the price of one of their cranks.

 

[EC17PSE]

Thank you very much gentlemen. I'd rather support the little guy/ US made (is there such a thing?) but Winberg is just too expensive. I can pick up crank, pistons and rods for the price of one of their cranks.

All forged cranks are made in china and finished in the USA. They all share the same dies for the most along some of the brands. Since 1 brand owns alot of them these days. I know its more involved then this reply

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I am leaning towards forged because of this. I'm not sure saving a few pounds with a billet crank is worth the risk. I think Callies comes in at 36lbs. Not sure what the Eagle weighs but probably about the same.

Eagle weighs in at 37lbs for reference.

 

[fourgsixty3]

Eagle weighs in at 37lbs for reference.

Thanks. According to Molnar, their crank is 38lbs. Very hefty for a billet piece.

 

[bastarddsm]

100mm crankshaft.

You are going to run into guys that fall into a few categories. First guys like donnie, that speak from genuine experience through years and years of building these things and beating the piss out of them. and then you'll have guys with quasi experience, they like to tell everyone how to do everything. They've built a few things and they kinda ran, but not really enough to be truly experienced to where they can give good advice, does not stop them from getting loud all the time though.

I'm with donnie, don't waste your time on an OEM crank. I crack a 6 bolt crank in #4 rod journal about every other year, and the only oem 100mm cranks in a "built" car I've come across in the wild were cracked too. My brother is using a 3g crank in his rwd 4g fairmont with a supercharger at about 300whp. It'll be interesting to see how that looks when we take it apart soon. In my case it think it's due to the heavier flywheel I use.

I have an eagle in my other car right now. The grind job wasn't great. Journals had some hourglass, maybe a touch of taper. Not that bad, but it wasn't as nice as a used stock 6 bolt crank. The thrust was tight though, like idk if a bearing would have fit. I hose clamped a pair together while clamped between a pair of 246 blocks to keep them straight and sanded them on 400 grit on glass down to get the clearance I wanted. Motor seems happy, but it hasn't run a lot and it's only 300hp. It's got maybe 30 dyno pulls and 10 1/4mi passes so far and still good. Goes 9000rpm a lot too.

I want to try an eagle in my big power car and see how they last compared to oe 6 bolt cranks.

We used to use some winberg stuff in duarmax engines for a bit, and they looked nice but did not hold up as good as an OEM. Engine builder was on a retard kick to use hemi type rods, so it had much smaller crank pins than stock, plus it was a stroker and we drive a lot of pumps on the front that probably don't help. so ymmv on that. They didn't seem to eager to help solve the problem, only sell more cranks, so that put the nail in the coffin for them. Back on stockish stroke stock journal size from callies and they live forever.

 

[fourgsixty3]

Thanks guys. I was leaning towards a forged Callies and your input sealed the deal.