2G Timing Belt Install Help 97-99 DSM

[kyler021]

Hey DSMers,

I'm starting to get extremely frustrated and discouraged doing this timing belt install (I know this is probably extremely easy for most people, and I'm trying not to take it to a mechanic but it seems as though that's what this project is coming to.)
So far I've tried using the VFAQ for help, multiple different forum sites, YouTube videos and I am still stuck. I've got all new pulleys installed, all that's currently left is torquing the center bolt for the tensioner pulley and getting the correct tension on the belt. I have all the special tools at my disposal.

Throughout forums posts I've seen that the proper tension is achieved when the grenade pin can slide in and out freely. When I tighten and torque the tensioner pulley bolt, pull the grenade pin out when it moves freely, do the 6 rotations, and leave it for 15 minutes, neither the drill bit method for measuring the hydraulic tensioner protrusion works, nor does the grenade pin slide in and out freely. The gap in between the hydraulic tensioner and the tensioner arm is smaller than 5/32". Also, I have to raise up the engine in order to get the torque wrench on the center pulley bolt, which messes with the hydraulic tensioner protrusion, since when I raise/lower the engine, the grenade pin doesn't slide in and out freely anymore.

I guess the main question is, how do I properly torque the center pulley bolt without the special tool moving and messing up the pretension on the belt, and how would I make sure the pretension on the belt is 100% correct? You guys have probably gotten this question a million times and for making that number bigger I genuinely apologize. This was an absolute last resort because I didn't want to get flamed. Edit: a better question would be, how do I make sure the tensioner protrusion will end up being between 5/32 and 11/64 after the 6 turns and after i let the tensioner settle?

Let the flames begin,
Kyle.

 

[92AWDHX40]

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/timing-belt-install.497251/

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check this out

 

[Early95AWDtsi]

When I did mine for the 1st time I had to keep on re doing it. Just keep at it and you will eventually get it man. I also done my belt with the engine installed so I know the feeling. But jacking up the engine shouldnt put any strain on the pin, it actually tells you to jack it up more for clearance, so im not 100% sure what you're doing there. You are only putting 24 inch lbs of force on the pulley when you torque the main bolt down. Then install the tool that's compresses the hydraulic tensioner until you can remove the pin. Remove the tool and rotate the engine 6 revolutions. Wait the 15 mins and check the gap. Just be patient. You will eventually get it, I promise.

 

[jdxnc]

To be honest I have all the special tools and don't use any of them except the long rod to put tension on the auto tensioner, I use 2 zip ties, a ratchet and a flat screw driver, I screw the rod in until it's just putting a tiny bit of pressure on the auto tensioner, snug center bolt up slightly and pry the pully until it has slight tension on the belt and then fully tighten it when I feel it's right. Release and 9 times out of 10 it's bang on, the grenade pin is free. It just takes practice and don't over think it. If it takes 5 times, it takes 5 times, you'll get it.

 

[pauleyman]

Hey DSMers,

I'm starting to get extremely frustrated and discouraged doing this timing belt install

One big mistake I see is people don't take out the slack on the idler side. I do this. I put a wrench on the exhaust cam and turn the motor backwards just a couple teeth. Then I turn the crank forward and line up the marks again. What this does it ensure there is no slack on the non tension (idler) side of the belt. Then I tension.

 

[kyler021]

But jacking up the engine shouldnt put any strain on the pin, it actually tells you to jack it up more for clearance, so im not 100% sure what you're doing there.

Basically, when it's jacked up to where I can fit the torque wrench in there, I remove the pin (when it moves freely), lower the engine to where I can fit the wrench on the crank sprocket bolt, do the 6 rotations and wait, I try to get the grenade pin into the tensioner to see if it still moves freely, it won't move freely. But when I jacked it up again to where it was before, it would move freely. I am just as confused as you are .

I screw the rod in until it's just putting a tiny bit of pressure on the auto tensioner

When you screw the rod in do you screw it in until the pin in the auto tensioner moves freely?

slight tension on the belt and then fully tighten it when I feel it's right

Where do the 2 smaller holes on the pulley end up when you fully tighten the center bolt? The reason I ask is because all of the videos I have watched and the vfaq is for 95-96 cars, where the holes end up directly under the center bolt. Mines a 98, and I've seen people say they'll end up around 4 o clock and 7 o clock but when I do that the auto tensioner pin ends up being out of spec, smaller than a 5/32 drill bit.

One big mistake I see is people don't take out the slack on the idler side. I do this. I put a wrench on the exhaust cam and turn the motor backwards just a couple teeth. Then I turn the crank forward and line up the marks again. What this does it ensure there is no slack on the non tension (idler) side of the belt.

I will try this when I get the chance, I didn't think of that since when I put tension on the pulley it feels pretty tight on the idler side.

I apologize for the many questions, I just want to get everything right. Can you tell this is my first time
I appreciate everyone for responding!

 

[steve]

All new parts including auto-tensioner and the tensioner arm?

 

[Early95AWDtsi]

Yes, you install the tool and turn it in until you can remove the pin freely. Put a 1/2 inch ratchet in the square hole of the crank bolt. That way when you jack it up it won't have enough room to fall out. If the tensioner is not releasing the pin when you let the jack down, but is releasing it when you jack it up, then either the tensioner is extending or the arm is moving. If you didn't replace the arm did you clean up and re apply any grease on the stud and inside the arm?

 

[kyler021]

All new parts including auto-tensioner and the tensioner arm?

New OEM auto tensioner, tensioner pulley, idler pulley. I'm reusing the tensioner arm though.

If you didn't replace the arm did you clean up and re apply any grease on the stud and inside the arm?

I did not grease the arm, I will do that tonight. Would assembly lube/grease or engine oil work? I wonder if not greasing it could be causing some type of problem. I did clean it before reinstalling.

 

[Early95AWDtsi]

Yeah it has to have grease in it because it pivots on the stub shaft its bolted too. I use the lucas red and tacky. Same stuff you would use for ball joints and tie rod ends. Try to pack it because there's a cavity in it.

 

[steve]

Make sure that there isn't a hole/divot where the pin rides on the arm too. If there is that throws off any measurement with a drill bit since the arm now sits lower than it would fresh.

 

[kyler021]

Yeah it has to have grease in it because it rotates on the stub shaft its bolted too. I use the lucas red and tacky. Same stuff you would use for ball joints and tie rod ends. Try to pack it because there's a cavity in it.

Thanks for the advice, I'll get to that sometime this weekend and post an update on the belt.

Make sure that there isn't a hole/divot where the pin rides on the arm too. If there is that throws off any measurement with a drill bit since the arm now sits lower than it would fresh.

Good point. I'll check that as well when I get the arm off. Appreciate the reply!

 

[kyler021]

I screw the rod in until it's just putting a tiny bit of pressure on the auto tensioner, snug center bolt up slightly and pry the pully until it has slight tension on the belt and then fully tighten it when I feel it's right. Release and 9 times out of 10 it's bang on, the grenade pin is free.

You are only putting 24 inch lbs of force on the pulley when you torque the main bolt down. Then install the tool that's compresses the hydraulic tensioner until you can remove the pin. Remove the tool and rotate the engine 6 revolutions. Wait the 15 mins and check the gap.

I followed these directions in the most recent try of getting the tension right, and the 2 past tries have resulted in the tensioner protrusion being out of spec, smaller than the 5/32 drill bit. Also, the grenade pin doesn’t slide in and out freely after the 15 minutes and 6 rotations. Attached are some pictures, the tensioner pulley was turned to 24 inch pounds as stated in 95AWDtsi's post, and the picture of the tensioner protrusion is taken after 15ish minutes and 6 rotations of the cam gears. I've been using the long bolt to hold the tensioner arm down until the grenade pin can slide in and out. The tensioner arm had a small divot (not noticeable at first so I'm assuming its not that serious) in it when I took it off the lube up the stud and hole in the arm.

I also ended up trying 20 inch pounds on the tensioner pulley to see if that would extend the protrusion into spec, the drill bit ended up measuring the same as before, not in spec, smaller than 5/32.

Is there anything I'm missing or that I should be trying?

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The drill bit ends up hitting the frame of the auto tensioner, ending up a little less than 5/32.

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Here's where the tensioner pulley dots after I apply 24 inch pounds to the pulley.

 

[pauleyman]

You're trying too hard. Forget that 24 in lb. I use the threaded rod until pin is loose. Back it off just a tiny bit and there is a little drag on the pin. Apply tension to pulley and pin is loose again. Tighten pulley bolt, 6 turns of crank. Done.
Yes I tension bolt while feeling the pin. One hand over fender one hand under. Once pin is where I want it I hold position of tensioner and grab tool to tighten pulley. An assistant helps but not necessary.

 

[steve]

What are you holding the tensioner pulley pins with when you torque the bolt down so it doesn't move/spin?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

This is what I use, it is a handy little thing.

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[Drewpy Dawg]

I had a similar issue installing my timing belt recently. I gave up using the torque wrench to apply tension to the pulley and just used a small breaker bar and the special tool. Took a couple tries to get the tension just right so the pin would move freely. Even then the gap at the tensioner body was smaller than spec. As the guys here assured me, as long as the pin moves freely it’s ok if the gap is a little smaller than spec. Trying to set it with the torque wrench and getting the pin to move at the same time the gap was in spec was basically impossible.

 

[steve]

I have a couple of different ones. First time out I made one from brass stock and a couple of 6-32 bolts but it was hard to hold and bent easily. So I bought the MD998752-01 tool from Miller Special Tools and that's what I use mainly because I can hold it with a 1/4" breaker bar and get a torque wrench on the bolt at the same time.

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I tension the pulley with the tool until the pin in the auto-tensioner is free and hold the position while I lock it in place with the torque wrench. Kind of like this but with a TQ wrench instead of the box end.

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Somewhere down the line I wound up with one of these but it seems to always be in the way and too tall. It's hiding in the bottom of some toolbox somewhere.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I have that tool also Steve and it does get in the way which is why I got the little tool, and I have a 1/4 breaker bar I put on it.

 

[pauleyman]

I lost my miller tool. I have the jay racing tool. It's adequate but miller is a little better I have to admit.

 

[kyler021]

What are you holding the tensioner pulley pins with when you torque the bolt down so it doesn't move/spin?

I'm using the exact one that 1990TSIAWDTALON posted underneath your post, and I'm holding the tool with a 1/4 inch drive torque wrench.

As the guys here assured me, as long as the pin moves freely it’s ok if the gap is a little smaller than spec.

When you did yours, the pin moved freely before and after the 6 rotations? Because I tighten mine down when it's moving freely, remove the grenade pin, but when I come back to check to make sure the pin still moves freely, the pin has a ton of drag.

You're trying too hard. Forget that 24 in lb. I use the threaded rod until pin is loose. Back it off just a tiny bit and there is a little drag on the pin. Apply tension to pulley and pin is loose again. Tighten pulley bolt, 6 turns of crank. Done.

I threaded the rod in until there was a little drag, tensioned the pulley until pin was loose, torqued the center bolt, pulled the grenade pin out (no drag at all), then backed out the long rod until the tensioner protrusion could move to it's resting place, then did the 6 rotations. Waited the 15 minutes and tried checking to see if the grenade pin would still move freely, and it would have drag on it after settling. I must've done this at least 5 times and haven't been successful. Do I think I'm overthinking this? Yes.

Again I thank everyone for the replies. And for everyone being patient with me

 

[steve]

If you still have the rod threaded in you're not really using the pulley to preload the timing belt tension. When Paul backs it off a tiny bit he's now relying on the belt preload to position the tensioner rod.

I don't use the threaded rod at all after a bought one. I find I can easily apply more or less preload with the rotation of the pulley and even compress the rod to reinstall the pin if I mess it up as long as the belt is in place.

 

[chrysler kid]

the gates racing belts have more tension resistance to them when they are new. your first rotations of the crank to top dead center again will have a few variations, typically you will notice the arm is too tight to the hydraulic tensioner.

insert the threaded rod to just start the pressure on the arm, loosen the tensioner bolt slightly, and slowly relieve pressure on the arm back to the proper gap. torque the tensioner pulley then rotate 6 revolutions back to top dead center. check depth, then wait 15 minutes to verify gap again.

so I keep a little bit of torque on the tensioner bolt (wrist tight) then loosen the long threaded bolt which causes the belt tension to slowly adjust the tensioner pulley. I then set the gap and torque the pulley.

usually kevlar belts are louder when they are new. or my ear just hears them differently .

also ive never noticed a difference in any 98-99 cars vs my 96. but again im not looking at the pulley clocking orientation. if you are really getting specific that clocking of the pulley is going to be slightly different on a kevlar blue belt vs a standard black belt

 

[EC17PSE]

I have done 6 and 7 bolts previously. The rod can work but I also found that I have a decent and you could call it guess on how tight for the pulley is. My recent one was a 6 bolt and I tensioned it and it was only a fraction too tight once the time and rotations had been done. Just a small release on the pulley bolt allowed the pins to go in without resistance vs the first try and then rechecked and all good. People assume they have to be super tight.

I can only describe it as I lightly tension with 1 finger! Just 1 and that's all the tension it needs to be so its not a lot really, a touch to the belt and a slight push is how its always been for me.

We all find little tricks and ways to suit though over time of doing the job

 

[kyler021]

insert the threaded rod to just start the pressure on the arm, loosen the tensioner bolt slightly, and slowly relieve pressure on the arm back to the proper gap. torque the tensioner pulley then rotate 6 revolutions back to top dead center. check depth, then wait 15 minutes to verify gap again.

So set the gap with the long rod? Basically, remove the grenade pin when it moves freely then back the long rod off until the gap measures up to the drill bits? Then tighten the preload on the pulley until it feels right, torque the center bolt and remove the long rod and do the rotations. I tried this and the drill bit still was hitting the side of the auto tensioner. But if that's okay, I'll go ahead and do that, I just don't want to lose an engine