2G Pretty simple 2.3L build question.

[LSM]

I had decided to buy a 100mm billet crank, rods, and -6 offset pistons, to build a 2.3L stroker motor. I also sold my old stock crank. I knew that the 2.3L configuration would put a lot more pressure on the cylinder walls and cause things to fail faster than the stock 2.0L, but to be honest, I didn't realize how fast it can destroy the block and other components! So heres my question: would buying and installing cylinder sleeves improve the duration of the block and components? From what I've read, it seems that the cylinder walls get worn into, seems to be the main issue. Well, that and bent rods. But can anybody tell me if sleeving the cylinders will increase life expectancy of my block enough to make this worth continuing to build?! I would appreciate any information that anybody can give me!

Please, I'm not interested in hearing opinions of what I should do instead or anything like that, I just want to know if sleeves would in fact significantly increase the duration of the components before failing, or needing to be replaced? These blocks are becoming a lot more uncommon, and the cost to buy a used one is going up very quickly! I'm hoping that sleeving the cylinders would give me a good few years of mildly aggressive daily driving!

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

In theory, replaceable cylinder sleeves would prolong the life of the block. The question I have is if there's enough room to bore out the cylinders for sleeves. Without affecting water/oil passages or making your cylinders too thin. Some aluminum variations of the 4g Evo engine were already sleeved, but how does their overall geometry differ?

 

[LSM]

In theory, replaceable cylinder sleeves would prolong the life of the block. The question I have is if there's enough room to bore out the cylinders for sleeves. Without affecting water/oil passages or making your cylinders too thin. Some aluminum variations of the 4g Evo engine were already sleeved, but how does their overall geometry differ?

I figured it would prolong it, thank you for confirming that with me! Dalton sells a couple different types of sleeves for the DSM 4G63 block, wet and dry for coolant passages or not. Two of the 4 sleeves are notched on both sides so that they will fit in the block without issue, and it says they can be bored up to 86mm I think it was.....might be slightly larger. I fugured that theyre made ofba stronger material than the cast iron block, so they should take longer fornthe pistons to wear into the sides. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything and thinking correctly haha! I wouldn't wanna go with the 2.3L if I was going to have to replace the block, or even the sleeves, every 2 years or something. Thats just too much maintenance, ya know?! I would think I would be able to get a good 3 years or more with the sleeves. Would be a daily driver, and of course I plan on embarrassing a lot of people on the road.....but for the most part, I won't be driving it hard all the time and beating the hell out of it......so I would think 3 or more years would be a reasonable expectation, wouldn't you?!

 

[familyMAN]

people have been running strokers in DSMs and EVOs for years and many 10's of thousands of miles. will it wear more than a 2.0, yes. will it wear enough to matter before you change up the setup, sell the car, break something else, , probably not.

why not rock it without sleeves,,, then IF you ever wear out the stock (or one size over to clean it up) bore, then sleeve it. I wouldn't worry about it to start with.

as for bending rods,,, that's a tuning issue or parts selection issue for the power you plan to run.

I have a 2.3l in my 4g63/auto MR2. 3k miles so far at anywhere from 450whp to 800whp depending on how much boost i'm running and if I spray a little nitrous. up to 8500 rpm....although power levels off at 7300 with the 2g head, evo intake and kelford 272's, so I usually don't rev it that high. Usually shift around 7800-8k.

we are having @donniekak build my son's 2.3l to replace his stock 7bolt 2.0 in his 4Gswap 3000GT also and my son daily drives his car. no sleeves. nothing special, just good machining and assembly.

 

[Tyeler18]

I think you're overthinking cylinder wear with the stroker. I've had a buschur 2.3L in my evo 8 for 10 years of my ownership with an FP black on e85, the engine has well over 70k miles on it at this point and I just had the head off last year, Cylinder walls still have cross hatching and it still makes almost 200psi of compression. It regularly sees 8k revs

 

[GST with PSI]

I've never heard 4G63 stroker builds of being significantly more prone to cylinder wall wear. If the limiting wear factor of your built 4g63 motor is the cylinder walls, you've likely done something wrong. I know people with stroker motors that have tons of miles on them. A stronger cylinder wall isn't going to do much for you, especially in the long run.

To your question, I doubt very highly even a sleeve made of a stronger material (stronger than cast iron in this case) would give the cylinder wall any sort of significant gain in longevity. If it did, it would be negligible at best. That's because the cylinder walls (sleeves or not) are designed and built with a lubrication system in mind that's literally there to prevent the piston skirt from wearing down the cylinder wall. To that point, if your cylinder walls are wearing out prematurely, you need to find and correct the root cause. The increased stroke of a 4g63 stroker crankshaft alone is not going to increase thrust loads so much that now you're wearing out cylinder walls. Assuming you're using 150mm rods, the difference in rod ratio between a stock 4g63 is vs a 2.3L stroker is 1.7 vs 1.5, respectively. I'm no engineer, but in the grand scheme, that seems like a negligible difference in regards to how much increased wear will be assumed. @bastarddsm can probably make more sense of that from an engineering perspective, but suffice it to say, your stroker crank should not be the reason you're wearing out cylinder walls.

Now, if you're asking if it would increase the longevity of the block itself (which I don't think you were), then absolutely. You could use the same block indefinitely by simply installing new sleeves.

 

[LSM]

I've never heard 4G63 stroker builds of being significantly more prone to cylinder wall wear. If the limiting wear factor of your built 4g63 motor is the cylinder walls, you've likely done something wrong. I know people with stroker motors that have tons of miles on them. A stronger cylinder wall isn't going to do much for you, especially in the long run.

To your question, I doubt very highly even a sleeve made of a stronger material (stronger than cast iron in this case) would give the cylinder wall any sort of significant gain in longevity. If it did, it would be negligible at best. That's because the cylinder walls (sleeves or not) are designed and built with a lubrication system in mind that's literally there to prevent the piston skirt from wearing down the cylinder wall. To that point, if your cylinder walls are wearing out prematurely, you need to find and correct the root cause. The increased stroke of a 4g63 stroker crankshaft alone is not going to increase thrust loads so much that now you're wearing out cylinder walls. Assuming you're using 150mm rods, the difference in rod ratio between a stock 4g63 is vs a 2.3L stroker is 1.7 vs 1.5, respectively. I'm no engineer, but in the grand scheme, that seems like a negligible difference in regards to how much increased wear will be assumed. @bastarddsm can probably make more sense of that from an engineering perspective, but suffice it to say, your stroker crank should not be the reason you're wearing out cylinder walls.

Now, if you're asking if it would increase the longevity of the block itself (which I don't think you were), then absolutely. You could use the same block indefinitely by simply installing new sleeves.

Well, actually, because the 2.3L stroker setup uses a 100mm crank instead of the 88mm, that significantly increased the rod angle! I will apologize right now because I don't remember all of the exact terms and names used to describe some of the things I'm about to explain, but you should be able to understand what I'm talking about! The increased rod angle very significantly increases the force/pressure put on the pistons, and that force/pressure actually pushes the piston against the cylinder wall at it's most perpendicular angle in the rotation, and it is then pushing the piston against the cylinder wall much, much harder than it normally would! That is what causes this setup to wear out the lower cylinder walls fairly quickly! This absolutely, 100% does happen! Do a quick Google search about it and you can find a lot of info and pics of damaged blocks!

So yes, I am actually asking in respects to longevity of the block life with cylinder sleeves! I know for sure that the sleeves will increase the life, because the sleeves are made of stronger metals, and they won't wear out so fast......but how much longer will things last before I'm having to change the sleeves again? Thats pretty much what my biggest question is! I don't want to have to be pulling my motor, stripping the block, and replacing the sleeves, and/or rods, pistons, all of that, every couple of years! That is entirely too much work for me to be doing every other year, not to mention, the cost of replacement parts! So yeah, I'm trying to figure out roughly how long the setup would last before having to replace parts again, when they wear out! Thank you for helping me specify my question.....I was having trouble thinking about how to explain it! Haha!

 

[familyMAN]

the only block I would consider sleeving for a build is a 2.4 block down to a 2.0 bore for better gasket sealing and then run a 2.4l long rod.

 

[97egl]

Well, actually, because the 2.3L stroker setup uses a 100mm crank instead of the 88mm, that significantly increased the rod angle! I will apologize right now because I don't remember all of the exact terms and names used to describe some of the things I'm about to explain, but you should be able to understand what I'm talking about! The increased rod angle very significantly increases the force/pressure put on the pistons, and that force/pressure actually pushes the piston against the cylinder wall at it's most perpendicular angle in the rotation, and it is then pushing the piston against the cylinder wall much, much harder than it normally would! That is what causes this setup to wear out the lower cylinder walls fairly quickly! This absolutely, 100% does happen! Do a quick Google search about it and you can find a lot of info and pics of damaged blocks!

So yes, I am actually asking in respects to longevity of the block life with cylinder sleeves! I know for sure that the sleeves will increase the life, because the sleeves are made of stronger metals, and they won't wear out so fast......but how much longer will things last before I'm having to change the sleeves again? Thats pretty much what my biggest question is! I don't want to have to be pulling my motor, stripping the block, and replacing the sleeves, and/or rods, pistons, all of that, every couple of years! That is entirely too much work for me to be doing every other year, not to mention, the cost of replacement parts! So yeah, I'm trying to figure out roughly how long the setup would last before having to replace parts again, when they wear out! Thank you for helping me specify my question.....I was having trouble thinking about how to explain it! Haha!

If you want to believe google over people on here with real world experience why ask any questions. Someone just told you they ran 70K miles on a 2.3 setup and still have cross hatching in the bores and its a very common setup. If there was significant wear issues it would be brought up anytime someone talks about a 2.3 stroker. The issues of rod angle have more to do with how much RPM you can do. Thats why you have 2.1 set-ups out there. They aren't doing all that work just to gain .1 displacement.

 

[CrackedDSM]

the only block I would consider sleeving for a build is a 2.4 block down to a 2.0 bore for better gasket sealing and then run a 2.4l long rod.

Damn it that's a good idea.

 

[familyMAN]

Damn it that's a good idea.

yeah if he wants to spend money, that's another way to get 2.3l but with long rod ratio (which isn't great but better).

 

[familyMAN]

If you want to believe google over people on here with real world experience why ask any questions. Someone just told you they ran 70K miles on a 2.3 setup and still have cross hatching in the bores and its a very common setup. If there was significant wear issues it would be brought up anytime someone talks about a 2.3 stroker. The issues of rod angle have more to do with how much RPM you can do. Thats why you have 2.1 set-ups out there. They aren't doing all that work just to gain .1 displacement.

Yeah, he could also google honda's oem rod ratio for a k24 they seem to think it will last a very long time and not have warranty issues for worn pistons skirts, bad ring sealing from worn sleeves or bent rods...

 

[GST with PSI]

the only block I would consider sleeving for a build is a 2.4 block down to a 2.0 bore for better gasket sealing and then run a 2.4l long rod.

Big brain shit

 

[familyMAN]

I can't take all the credit; came from a discussion with @donniekak when planning my MR2 build. Ultimately, I decided to keep it simple and did the standard stroker with K1 h beams and Wiseco HD pistons and an Eagle 100mm crank. If the car was only a hair more race oriented, I would do a 2.0l for sure, even more simple.

 

[donniekak]

Not only do strokers have more rod angle, they have a smaller skirt to spread the force over.

 

[familyMAN]

but they still last long enough that it doesn't matter. car will probably rot or head gasket pop before it matters . But as we had talked about, sleeve a 2.4l if he really wants to spend the time and money sleeving.