Why are my hx40s seizing????

[95DsManiac]

Hey everyone,

I finally got my laser back to get her after a somewhat build and reused my H1E. I didn't change anything as far as oil feed or drain and it was fine before. About two days ago I was driving to get some hIDs for the pop ups and my car stopped boosting.

After getting to the store to get my lights I popped the hood and noticed a line undone so I thought I found the no boost problem. Well reaching in to fix it I take off my intake pipe, and had my brother start the car to see if it would build boost and noticed the dam turbo isn't spinning. I get it home and take it all apart and the dam thrust collar broke.

I found a new 7 blade hx40 on ebay for 500 and noticed the area code was near me, so I gave the guy a call and he said I can pick it up for 450 and I convinced my wife to let me get it.

I get it yesterday and put it on today, started it about 4:10 pm pacific time and everything's perfect. I drive it to my wife's Nanas birthday party 35 miles away and it drives really good. I only have boost about 24 and it feels nice. Well I park for a while and. Install my headlights, then go to drive to get a red bull and it happened again, no boost.

Now what in the heck would cause me to sieze two new hx40 in less then three days apart? I am stressed out the game on this one because I just chucked out the money for the turbo, and the same day I got a good deal on some weld draglines 15x10 with MT 26x10.5x15 and couldn't pass it up. I am looking at the car now, it just happened a few minutes ago and I don't know where to start, I can't get a tow today so I have tonight to come up with a plan on what to do. I need a plan because I can't work on the car at home because I got to many complaints already, so when I do touch it it has to be planned out pretty good.

Please, any and all suggestions and help is more then highly appreciated. I really need to figure this out so I can have my car back.

Thanks for reading and god bless,

Anthony B.

 

[renovatdkitchen]

Are you for sure getting oil pressure at the turbo? Could be a clogged line or OFH.

 

[donniekak]

Is the feed hole in the thrust plates clogged when you take them apart? Where are you feeding it from?

 

[JusMX141]

You can't ruin two new turbos unless you're doing something horribly wrong with the oiling- perhaps even severe oil contamination issues that are showing up in the turbo long before an engine component fails.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/turbo-failure-number-4-suggestions.444131/

 

[1SIC1Gb]

Yeah I agree, would have to be oil contamination or it's getting no oil.

 

[95DsManiac]

Thanks everyone for the quick responses.

I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't make any changes to the oiling supply or feed while I built the head and installed the new clutch and smim. I am feeding from the OFH the car is a 1990 laser and has the stock oil cooler, the lines on the cooler look like they might be kinked the way the previous owner left them and it's tucked where the AC condensor used to be.

Feed is a 4AN off the housing and no restrictor for I have balance shafts still.

The drain is a 10AN with both flanges drilled out like a taper.

Last night I took the compressor housing off and while trying to loosen the bolt I got it to spin again. I tightened down the bolt and it spins now, and I here nothing rattling like the first turbo, the first one broke the thrust collar. I test drove it and it stills spins, I know it's not fixed, I just didn't have my ID for AAA to tow it so I drove it home, the car won't build nothing but 1.7psi and I wouldn't expect it to.

Where should I go from here?

You think maybe a kinked oil cooler would cause insufficient oil pressure?

Thanks and god bless,

Anthony B.

 

[crimsondragon]

If it did you would see a drop of pressure throughout the whole engine. What exactly was done to the new head? I suspect cleaning wasn't done properly. You might want to check the engine bearings as well at this point.

 

[bmxfelon420]

I thought holsets were supposed to have restrictors? As far as I understood it, the correct amount of flow is critical to a Holset, i.e. you need to have the right restrictor depending on whether it's fed from the housing or head. I'll try to find the info.

 

[Alucards_blood]

Definately keep an eye on oil pressure going to your turbo. I have a custom oil feed that has an inline filter and a tee for a pressure sensor so there's no need to guess.

 

[bmxfelon420]

Found this info in this thread http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/holset-hx35-oil-feed-question.388505/

"12. Oil pressure of 150 kPa (20 lbf/in2) must show at the oil inlet within 3 - 4 seconds of engine firing to prevent damage to turbocharger bearing system. A flexible supply pipe is recommended.
13. The minimum oil pressure when the engine is on load must be 210 kPa (30 lbf/in2). Maximum permissible operating pressure is 500 kPa (72 lbf/in2) although 600 kPa (88 lbf/in2) is permitted during cold start up. Under idling conditions pressure should not fall below 70 kPa (10 lbf/in2)."

30psi minimum
72psi maximum

So since the head feed can output really low pressure under idling, it's not good for a Holset. However, the reason you'd run restrictor is that you want anything above 72psi to be weeded out by the smaller opening. At least that's the idea. I'm wondering if the pressure hasnt been right for some reason. Maybe a good idea would be to hook a gauge up to the feed with the turbo taken off and revving it a few times sitting still just to see what you see out of that. What alucard said is a good idea as well.

 

[athlete3344]

If it did you would see a drop of pressure throughout the whole engine. What exactly was done to the new head? I suspect cleaning wasn't done properly. You might want to check the engine bearings as well at this point.

Agreed. Have you checked your oil pan for metal material?

 

[2slow4now]

Something I had seen lately on ebay with hx40's is the knock off one's on there quite a bit. Is it possible you got one of those?
You also mentioned it came from california which is one of the number one places china imports stuff so it makes it more likely it could be a knock off.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

They dont have to have a restrictor on feed as long as the drain is sufficient, which -10 isnt.

I'm willing to bet there is a clogged feed line or something in there..

 

[Archer Fabrications]

They dont have to have a restrictor on feed as long as the drain is sufficient, which -10 isnt.

I'm willing to bet there is a clogged feed line or something in there..

The holsets really arent that picky as long as they get the correct volume to the bearings. Ive been running a -4 feed un restricted with no balance shafts and a ported ofh with a -12 feed with no issues and I'm pretty sure i see 85-90psi at 8500rpms still havnt bad problems at 38psi boost.

You should always check what the pressure is at your feed line upon installation though.

 

[jakelandry]

It physically HAS to be due to oil starvation. This is a common sense issue.

 

[95DsManiac]

Ok,mso I finally got my car to my dad's garage and dug into it yesterday. The turbo still spins and I can't hear anything clunking around on the inside upon shaking it after taking it off. I will be back over after church today to take it all apart to see what actually broke.

But yea, I know it was from oil starvation, but I didn't know where to look to see why it's not getting the oil.

I mentioned I had these same lines on previous Holset and was fine, only started to go out after I put the head on, and the head. Was cleaned, because I cleaned it, I've worked at a machine shop and I know how to clean a head, plus I have OCD when it comes to my cars.

I ordered a oil filter for the turbo and will be installing a oil pressure gauge today.

Thanks again for the replys and god bless,

Anthony B.

 

[91 GSX]

They dont have to have a restrictor on feed as long as the drain is sufficient, which -10 isnt.

As UrbanSmoker noted, a -10an oil return line may not be big enough, especially if its partially kinked. Sounds like you'll find your cause when you tear down the blown turbo, but a fitting on your oil feed line directly at the turbo for a temporary pressure gauge is always nice. I have one I just leave there wrapped in heat reflective tape, along with -16an return(overkill maybe).

 

[95DsManiac]

Sorry but that isn't set in stone, about 2% of all dsm'er so using Holsets ever had a problem with 10AN lines, that's not my problem, it's oil supply. Please don't post if it isn't actual hard evidence or related to my problem.

And as I mentioned many times, both fittings are tapered per many dsm'er so doing the same to help drain the oil.

I think I found my problem anyways, the oil cooler was bent and the lines twisted, I'm just going to delete it and further dig into it while I have it at my parents house.

I already ordered a inline oil filter and I just got my Stewart Warner oil pressure sensor and gauge. I'm also going to put a tee on the line with an gauge intact for insurance.

Also like someone suggested I'm going to pull the oil pan and look around.

I thank you all who have helped and god bless,

Anthony B.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I meant -12 drain not feed

And also, it wasnt fine if your last holset blew too. So yeah, glad you figured oit the oil cooler thing, I'd be worried about engine too

 

[athlete3344]

The other thing you can check is the oil filter. Cut it open cleanly, and see if it has any debris within it.

 

[casperfast]

I am running the feed and drain kit from extreme psi. I did the balance shaft elimination while the engine was out. So I took the oil inlet fitting and welded it shut and drilled a 7/64 hole in it. No issues

 

[tmoney20g]

Feed is a 4AN off the housing

Did you take it off the housing from the proper port ?

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/oillineinstall.htm

 

[95DsManiac]

Hey urban, I think I'm just going to order a 12AN kit so I can for sure cross that off the list, plus it would be nice to have.

I pulled the filter today and it didn't look like anything in here, but I'll be cutting it open tomorrow. I also already got the delete kit for the oil cooler, so that's crossed off the list as well. I had my brother install the oil sender in the OFH and he ended up breaking the darn whole piece the sender threads into.

And yea I have it in the right one, the slanted one. I'll post pictures later today. I'm hoping to either put in a order for a new turbine, compresor wheel and rebuild kit to have it back together. Or see if the local guy who has a mother new one I can get for a good deal and I'll just buy another new one.

Also I pulled the turbo apart somewhat last night and the bearings and thrust collar look good to me, what could be wrong if it siezed? I'll snap a shot real quick here in a min.

Thanks and god bless,

Anthony B.

 

[442powerstroke]

are they real holsets or knockoffs bcuz real holset cost waymore

 

[Pipnorcali]

Last cmi race is oct hope ya can Get her read