Turbo options for my car

[Srt4RacerDave]

I would encourage you to call FP and ask them to make you an HTA Green for a dsm....A birdy in the window told me that FP is planning to release a new dsm green with the HTA76 wheel. That should be one badass turbo, it should spool up faster then the current green and make more power.

How much money are we talking, though? And the red is too laggy for my needs? Also, the FP Green doesn't physically look that much bigger then a 16g. Is it a definate upgrade? I don't want to be going from a 16g to 18g, for example. I see it flows a LOT more then the 16g, though.

 

[aadperformance]

How much money are we talking, though? And the red is too laggy for my needs? Also, the FP Green doesn't physically look that much bigger then a 16g. Is it a definate upgrade? I don't want to be going from a 16g to 18g, for example. I see it flows a LOT more then the 16g, though.

The Green is actually bigger than a td06 20g, so not sure why you would say that. Plus it has a completely different compressor cover than a 16g

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

Well, if the FP Green is that much of an upgrade over the 16g, then it sounds like this could work for me. Any other turbos of noticeable mention? I have nothing against Holset, I just don't know anything about them.

 

[aadperformance]

Well, if the FP Green is that much of an upgrade over the 16g, then it sounds like this could work for me. Any other turbos of noticeable mention? I have nothing against Holset, I just don't know anything about them.

An FP Green will get you into the 500 range on high octane fuel. For more info on the Holset HX35 just read through any of the holset threads, the first page has most of the pertinent info in terms of potential. For more specifics as to what each person has done and found out you will have to read through them.

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

High octane meaning what? The highest octane gas around here is 93. What's the main difference between the green, and the red? The price difference in minimal. I'm guessing the red is less street-able. Also, how does the FP Green flow? I tried searching, but I'm coming up with a bunch of "....favorite turbo" or "building turbo..." threads. As a side note, how would a green perform compared to a gt3076r?

 

[dsm-onster]

The old fpred uses the Garrett 60-1 compressor wheel with an e-cover compressor housing. The compressor flows around 57lb/min. And usually comeswith a clip on the td06h turbine wheel. It likes race gas and more boost than the fpgreen.

The old fpgreen uses the Garrett 50-trim compressor wheel. The compressor flows around 49lb/min.It's a lottle more efficient and is more or less ok with pumpgas because it flows well (deep into its potential) up to 25-26psi wich CAN be tuned on pumpgas.

Both will net your goals. I'm not sure where FP is taking the green. There may be a new model coming out. I can't remember. The gt3076r and the bolton version the fp3052 have a better turbine wheeel than the td06h and have the same 52lb/min garrett gt compressor wheel. This turbo has been really pushed and has proven to work well pushed right off the compressor map.

The other options. . . The hx35 8blade wheel flows 52lb/min. Bolton versions have put down similar numbers to the fp3052 (bolton gt3076r). The 7blade version has a 60lb/min compressor. Both have a tubine wheel larger than the td06h used in the FPgreen/red. The s256 flows 60lb/min and the s258 is at 70% efficiency at 60lb/min so it flows around 65lb/min. But at this point with their smaller wheels, it may be difficult to see those high flow numbers with the smaller s2** turbine wheel. However. Witht he 7blade hx35 or the s256 and s258, you could certainly see the 60lb/min number, when ever you decide you want more, by just ugrading the turbine housing and exhaust manifold. IOW you wouldn't have to buy another whole turbo, change oil lines & water lines, and intercooler piping, if you decide to go from 470whp to 570whp .

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

The old fpred uses the Garrett 60-1 compressor wheel with an e-cover compressor housing. The compressor flows around 57lb/min. And usually comeswith a clip on the td06h turbine wheel. It likes race gas and more boost than the fpgreen.

The old fpgreen uses the Garrett 50-trim compressor wheel. The compressor flows around 49lb/min.It's a lottle more efficient and is more or less ok with pumpgas because it flows well (deep into its potential) up to 25-26psi wich CAN be tuned on pumpgas.

Both will net your goals. I'm not sure where FP is taking the green. There may be a new model coming out. I can't remember. The gt3076r and the bolton version the fp3052 have a better turbine wheeel than the td06h and have the same 52lb/min garrett gt compressor wheel. This turbo has been really pushed and has proven to work well pushed right off the compressor map.

The other options. . . The hx35 8blade wheel flows 52lb/min. Bolton versions have put down similar numbers to the fp3052 (bolton gt3076r). The 7blade version has a 60lb/min compressor. Both have a tubine wheel larger than the td06h used in the FPgreen/red. The s256 flows 60lb/min and the s258 is at 70% efficiency at 60lb/min so it flows around 65lb/min. But at this point with their smaller wheels, it may be difficult to see those high flow numbers with the smaller s2** turbine wheel. However. Witht he 7blade hx35 or the s256 and s258, you could certainly see the 60lb/min number, when ever you decide you want more, by just ugrading the turbine housing and exhaust manifold. IOW you wouldn't have to buy another whole turbo, change oil lines & water lines, and intercooler piping, if you decide to go from 470whp to 570whp .

I'm willing to listen as long as your willing to talk. So, to sum it all up, your telling me that ANY of those turbos will let me hit my goal. Your saying for the extra 50$, the FP Red is a better turbo then the FP Green. But on the other hand, the 7 blade versions of the hx35, s256 or s258 will let me hit my goal easily, with lots of room to expand. And all of these turbos and plug and play with my current setup. Does that sum it up? Again, this advice is much appreciated...

 

[dsm-onster]

The fpred is a better turbo if you want more than 500whp. The fpgreen is better if you want up to that because it spools much faster.

Yes the s256-9 turbos and the 7blade hx35 both allow alot more room to grow down the road. As much or more than the fpred. But allow you have the faster spool like an fpgreen now. And have better compressor efficiency than the fpred across the board at all levels from 450-590whp. Newer tech. Teh fp3052 has a much better compressor wheel than the fpgreen but is a little small to keep up with the 60lb/min flow that the fpred compressor can output.

None of the turbos are plug and play. You have to do intercooler piping work with them all. You CAN get away with the 16g oil/water lines with the FPgreen/red. But FP always recommends feeding from the OFH with appropriate restrictor.

ALL of these turbos (including the fpgreen and red) really need an external gate if you wish to see your goal. You will have MAJOR issues trying to stop an internal gate from blowing open. And will prevent you from seeing enough boost to reach your goal.

The hx35 needs the bep bolton housing. It is by far the most affordable option becasue of how common the used ones are on the diesel classifieds. You will need to deal with the oil lines and restrictor. You will not need an O2 housing, though it is recommended that you get a tubular O2 housing with an external gate off the o2. First the stock/evo O2 housing is terribly restrictive (O2 housing with gate on it is always tubular). Second, you need an external gate for your goal. Punisment racing has recirculated external gate tubular O2 housings for $289. Kills two birds with one stone.

The s256-9 turbos use the same BEP bolton housing. Same thing as above goes for the O2 housing and oil lines. These turbos can be bought new from bullseyepower.com. The non extended tip (NET) spool a little slower and arn't as efficient at high boost. But still get the job done at higher flows. They are more affordable than the extended tip (ETT) and are proving to be an effective more affordable alternative. Of course the ETT turbos are the cats ass .

The FP3052, which is a bolton gt3076r allows you to bolton to the stock manifold. But still requires oil lines like all the other turbos. And also requires the specific FP O2 housing. It's an upgraded housing that allows an external gate off of it as well like the Punisment racing piece. But, the housing alone costs $425. If you want it recirculated, you're paying $625. Still this turbo has put down awesome results and seen your hp goal like all the turbos mentioned.

 

[aadperformance]

If you truly just want to bolt on a turbo and go with still being able to get close to your goals try this turbo. This is as bolt on with no more mods as it gets right now. This is a new turbo so there isn't really any real world data on it at the moment, but FP rates the choke flow at 47lbs/min which would be around 470hp. By high octane fuel I mean either race gas or e-85

FP 68HTA
Forced Performance Turbochargers: FP 68HTA Turbocharger for DSM

 

[Srt4RacerDave]

How about those "rumored' HTA Greens? I saw them up for the scoobis, just not for the DSM yet.

 

[91talon27]

If it were me I would call Forced Performance and tell them your goals and they will gladly help you find the turbo that will meet or exceed your goals and expectations. They have always been good to me and I have always received great customer service. I will never run anything other than a FP turbo.

 

[Rockbmx1]

K, so the red is a 60-1 comp with an FP custom tdo6h turbine wheel with 11 blades, not 12 like the standard mitsu wheels. Its much better flowing, and does not get clipped like DSMonster said. Also it flows about 60lbs/min. This turbo has made 500-600+whp several times. (spool up is about 4500) The green is the same as the red, but with a 50 trim comp wheel that flows 49lbs/min. (spool up 3800rpm)
The HTA green that is coming out, hopefully, has the billet 76mm comp wheel, not the 50 trim wheel, that flows 60lbs/min and will spool up faster then the standard green (about 3500rpm area)
So in short, the HTA green will make the same power as the red, but will spool up faster then the standard non hta green. This turbo will make more power then the fp3052 and will spool up about the same rpm. If you want the best advice or info on other turbos that they can make you, just call FP, they have the BEST customer service and will bend over backwards to give you help with any questions you have. If you buy a turbo through them, you will never look back. FP isn't a fad like these holset turbos are, and they are always pushing the envelope with new technology. Look at PTE, CBRD, and Garrett, they are both following after FP with the billet compressor wheels. I know that you Holset junkies will bring up the billet wheels that were made first, but they just do it for strength, not for the aero benifits like the other companys that I mentioned. I will be the first to say that Holset started doing it first, but they didn't change anything about the wheel besides the machine work. With that being said, FP was the first to do the custom billet wheels, and in my opinion they are kicking the crap out of the rest of the followers with how they perform and hold up. Not only is the technology the best through FP, the materials are better too, look into the type of aluminum FP uses versus all the other companys, there is a huge difference. Anyways, I will quit sack ridding FP, but truly, they are the best turbo company out there right now, and they will cater to all of you needs.

 

[dsm-onster]

Holset turbos arn't a fad, buddy. My 48lb/min h1c is older than my 1991 AWD. They've been used for 20+ years on other platforms, are more common than garrett as charger upgrades in europe, are found in several formula 1 cars until turbos were banned, and have proven themselves in the dsm. Holset Results Thread: most of these are with stock compression pistons and stock manifolds. 494whp at 26psiw/ bolton housing, 11.2 at 28psi on stock manifolds/compression/bolton, 494whp on a MUSTANG DYNO w/ stock intake manifold & slipping clutch (bolton): these are the results that the bolton hx35 does reliably by guys that arn't nearly as talented as Curt Brown .

None of the turbos mentiond will NOT reach the OPs goal. And all are good choices. You mentioned a great option. But please don't barf out unsubstanciated opinion. FP changes their turbos choices on a semi-monthly basis, but I don't consider their discontinued turbos (I.E. the td06sl2 18g) a fad.

And since everyone is indulging themselves. . . Yes you're right no one cares about billet itself. Its the aero dynamics that count. The 7blade hx35 flows 60lb/min (logged and varified) and spools to full song by about 3700rpms (logged and varified). The fp green spools to full slightly later. 40psi capable at under 140K rpms. Still at 70% efficiency at +36psi and 55lb/min.

You can get one for about $300.

The FPgreen hta for the evo has the 73mm wheel that flows 54lb/min. If fp comes out with an fpgreen hta for the dsm, this is what it likely will have. Nice price :[ . This theoretical turbo is not even released yet.

Again all the turbos mentioned are great options and can net your current goal. Don't forget to do some research on the Borg-Warner fad too

 

[Rockbmx1]

I am not trying to say that Holset turbos don't make power or don't work well on our cars. I actually had a billet hx40 that I recently sold, but it was cause I needed money. When I said that Holsets are a fad, I would have been more correct by saying it's a current craze. They are very popular for many reasons right now with dsmr's, but it would be cool if they were more tailored to a gas powered motor rather then diesels. If they were designed for gas powered motors, I have no doubt that they would be a serious contender for many of the top tier turbo manufacturers.

A side note on the HTA Green for the dsm's, Robert told me that they will be using an HTA76 comp wheel, not the HTA73 like the evo green. The reason that he will be using the HTA76 wheel is because it is more cost effective to use a wheel that they currently make instead of trying to make a standard rotation HTA73. I will add that what I have learned from Robert about the new dsm HTA Green is still in the final stages of design, so it could be constructed differently then I was told from now till the release date. I am just relaying what I was told.

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

I am not trying to say that Holset turbos don't make power or don't work well on our cars. I actually had a billet hx40 that I recently sold, but it was cause I needed money. When I said that Holsets are a fad, I would have been more correct by saying it's a current craze. They are very popular for many reasons right now with dsmr's, but it would be cool if they were more tailored to a gas powered motor rather then diesels. If they were designed for gas powered motors, I have no doubt that they would be a serious contender for many of the top tier turbo manufacturers.

A side note on the HTA Green for the dsm's, Robert told me that they will be using an HTA76 comp wheel, not the HTA73 like the evo green. The reason that he will be using the HTA76 wheel is because it is more cost effective to use a wheel that they currently make instead of trying to make a standard rotation HTA73. I will add that what I have learned from Robert about the new dsm HTA Green is still in the final stages of design, so it could be constructed differently then I was told from now till the release date. I am just relaying what I was told.

A turbo will work the same on a gas or a diesel, and if a turbo is proven on a diesel, then it will work anyday on a gas, and it will spool faster on a gas, and make more power on a gas. Its a craze because, they work, plain and simple. The proof is out there, and holsets are simply the best thing out there.

 

[JusMX141]

When I said that Holsets are a fad, I would have been more correct by saying it's a current craze.

If "craze" means outspooling and outflowing any hybrid journal bearing turbo that Garrett makes, and doing so with better reliability....then you're absolutely correct.

 

[Steve93Talon]

A side note on the HTA Green for the dsm's, Robert told me that they will be using an HTA76 comp wheel, not the HTA73 like the evo green. The reason that he will be using the HTA76 wheel is because it is more cost effective to use a wheel that they currently make instead of trying to make a standard rotation HTA73. I will add that what I have learned from Robert about the new dsm HTA Green is still in the final stages of design, so it could be constructed differently then I was told from now till the release date. I am just relaying what I was told.

They're already making a standard rotation HTA73 wheel, it's being used in the EVO X Green.


I've personally run an S256 in the bolt-on housing and gone 11.9 @ 119 on pump gas, stock bottom end, stock head, stock intake manifold with FP2 cams, full weight. Full boost was around 3600. Having previously owned a Green, i'd take an S256 any day over one.

 

[Rockbmx1]

I can't believe how much people sack ride the Holsets!! I don't want anyone getting butt hurt from me not thinking that they are the best thing out there, but seriously?? How many of you buttholeset riders have been around long enought to remember when holsets began to become a bit popular about 6-7 years ago with dsm guys??? Oh, not many of you huh?? Well, I do, but I also remember the compressor wheels blowing up because of the shaft speeds and destroying my friends motor. Before any of you make comments about how my friend doesn't know what he is doing, he has made more power with a dsm then 99% of you ever will. If it means anything, he gets calls from guys like Lucas English for advice, so take that for what its worth. Anyways, I realize that Holsets will spool a bit faster and last soooo much longer and how much they flow and kill every other turbo on the market cause they cost $300 bucks and turn you car into a Ferrari, but why haven't I ever heard of any fast cars using them?? I don't see auto-x's cars using Holsets, or anyone that is in the 7's, 8's, 9's, or 10's??? According to the Holset Results Tread, no one has been in the 10's, very close, but it's still not a 10. So, if you wonderful Holset riders can show me a Holset powered car that can keep up with a Fp HTA turbo of the same size, I will gladly give up my custom HTA turbo for a Holset.
Another point I would like to make is that your Holsets don't spool up as fast as others.
Take a look at Lucas English's dyno graphs for the new FP Black turbo. This turbo is comparable to an Hx-40, and the black can spool up faster then the Hx-40 and I will be damned if I see an Hx-40 make more hp at the same boost levels and or spool up as fast. Before I hear all the crap I am going to get with this post, please look at the thread that Lucas made and educate yourself's before you say things that aren't true or relevant.
I'm in no way against Holset turbos, but I am sick of all the bs that certain members tell others about how great Holsets are. They are good turbos, but not the best, so don't tell people that they are the best. We all enjoy boost, so lets just keep that in mind. We all have opinions and some share their's more then others. At the end of the day, I am fully content using my Fp turbo. I will use and FP turbo till I die, they are the best!

They're already making a standard rotation HTA73 wheel, it's being used in the EVO X Green.

Thank you for informing us. That was just my though on the matter based off of what Robert told me. It will be interesting to see what is released.

A turbo will work the same on a gas or a diesel, and if a turbo is proven on a diesel, then it will work anyday on a gas, and it will spool faster on a gas, and make more power on a gas. Its a craze because, they work, plain and simple. The proof is out there, and holsets are simply the best thing out there.

Except when diesel turbines melt and chip because of the egt's that they weren't designed for. Holsets aren't the best, otherwise there would be Holset's on the used on the fastest dsm's(but none of them use Holsets).

If "craze" means outspooling and outflowing any hybrid journal bearing turbo that Garrett makes, and doing so with better reliability....then you're absolutely correct.

If this is true, then prove it.

 

[dsm-onster]

^^^^Who is this kid?

Holsets have done 10s before even on the dsm platform (lets forget about the rest of the gasoline world). And they have done almost 9s on even the last place that sees it; the dsm times website. This cookie is really pissed isn't he.

Meanwhile nice results from the recent post in the holset results thread: over 600whp yet again. Click.

. . . At a wapping 35psi wow lots of boost there.

The big names don't use holsets because holset doesn't give them the money to make them work. Grow up and smell the cashflow.

 

[JusMX141]

I can't believe how much people sack ride the Holsets!! I don't want anyone getting butt hurt from me not thinking that they are the best thing out there, but seriously??

Funny, I feel the same about FP and PTE humpers.

How many of you buttholeset riders have been around long enought to remember when holsets began to become a bit popular about 6-7 years ago with dsm guys??? Well, I do, but I also remember the compressor wheels blowing up because of the shaft speeds and destroying my friends motor.

I've been rebuilding turbos for almost 7 years now and I can't say I've ever seen a Holset wheel blow up in any way first-hand. I've read a thread or two on the topic, but never seen one personally.

However, I have seen a bunch of Garrett wheels explode....more Stage 5 (T352) turbines than anything else. One customer actually had his Stage 5 wheel break off on his 6152S after just 3 miles. The turbine literally didn't even have the indexing paint marks from the factory burnt off yet. Quality control issues?

According to the Holset Results Tread, no one has been in the 10's, very close, but it's still not a 10.

Right, because everyone around the globe who runs a Holset on their DSM is a member of this site and logs their information on that thread.

http://www.dsmtimes.org/times.php?Page=1

Scroll down to #97.

So, if you wonderful Holset riders can show me a Holset powered car that can keep up with a Fp HTA turbo of the same size, I will gladly give up my custom HTA turbo for a Holset.

Prepare to make the transition.

Here's a guy who converted to a HX35 after using a FP 18G-6SL2 on his car, the turbo which has apparently been replaced by the HTA68:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/353498-holset-turbos-part-7-a-2.html#post152041054

Comparing wheel sizes we have the 18G compressor clocking in with a 50.4mm inducer and a 68mm exducer while the HX35 has a 56mm inducer and a whopping 78mm exducer. The difference in the turbine measurements are even more staggering, and the HX35 can flow a minimum of 10lb/min MORE than the 18G at peak. I'd like your explanation of how a turbo with a compressor wheel that is nearly 1cm larger on all measurements can outspool something that FP has put tons of R&D into building....a better, more efficient wheel design on the Holset, perhaps?

I'm in no way against Holset turbos, but I am sick of all the bs that certain members tell others about how great Holsets are. They are good turbos, but not the best, so don't tell people that they are the best.

At the end of the day, I am fully content using my Fp turbo. I will use an FP turbo till I die, they are the best!

Guess we know where you stand.

That's quite a hypocritical statement 'ya got there.

Except when diesel turbines melt and chip because of the egt's that they weren't designed for. Holsets aren't the best, otherwise there would be Holset's on the used on the fastest dsm's(but none of them use Holsets).

So now there are differences between the metals used in gasoline and diesel Turbochargers? Interesting.

I'll be sure to let Rau and the rest of the guys running BW know that their turbos were intended to be used on John Deere diesels so they can switch to a FP turbo to prevent their turbines from melting.

 

[dsm-onster]

And don't forget The Turbo Sharky : 10.8sec at 4psi less boost than when he dynoed 685whp. Since some want to play the "show me" game. . . Show me another bolton turbo that has done 685+ whp. This is the horsepower record for a .55 a/r BEP housing.

Apparently this guy didn't look at ANY of the links I posted Justin. All these european results are with gassers. . .


838hp hx55 Volvo 850 turbo
865hp hx55 Volvo 242 turbo
619 hp hx40 Toyota Supra MKIV
575hp hx40 Saab 9000 turbo
568hp hx40 Saab 9000 Aero
550hp hx40 BMW 525 turbo
506hp hx35 Volvos S40
500hp hx35 Volvo 740

Some turbos many may not realize came from diesel platforms:

• the fpred (Fuso diesel truck turbine wheel and famous 60-1 diesel compressor)
• fp green (same turbine as fpred with the 50-trim compressor that garrett uses on their drop in turbo for a cummins 6bt)
• 60-trim (ford 7.8 diesel 6 cylinder)
• gt35r (upgrade to the powerstroke diesel)
• td06 20g/18g (mitsubishi fuso)
• It is rumored the small 16g was built for a small diesel platform (which would put the evo3 16g turbine in the diesel list)

Again OP yur goal is right in the thick of the dsm world. The safe limit for a 6bolt motor. A 49-60lb/min compressor is what you need. In order of compressor flow: Holset h1c (54mm), td06 20g, fpgreen/50-trim, 8blade hx35, fpgreen hta (if it comes out in time), s256, scm6052, hx35 7blade, s258. All in their respective bolton housings have plenty of turbine to net your goal.

The hx40 8blade has a 60lb/min compressor. But a much larger turbine than all these other turbos. The bolton will spool to full song a hair after 4K. Which is about what some of these other boltons do too. But flows ALOT more gases through the turbine at the same boost. So it is a bit more pumpgas friendly. However, some of these turbos spool to full song by 3500-3700rpms (the bolton h1c/hx35 and the 20g are the most notable). You have a range here. And ALOT of choices. You can't go wrong with any of them. You CAN go wrong listening to only part of the story to favor one brand. Some of these turbos, while highly efficient at your current goal, offer very affordable transitions to much higher power levels. Others offer a company with good customer service, if you're willing to pay. While still others are the old reliable that is a part of the dsm culture.

I have to agree with Justin, the PTE turbos have the highest likelyhood of breaking.

 

[Yngvar]

I don't see auto-x's cars using Holsets, or anyone that is in the 7's, 8's, 9's, or 10's??? According to the Holset Results Tread, no one has been in the 10's, very close, but it's still not a 10.

I know a guy with a 1JZ in an RX7 with fuel mods, header and HX-35 his best time so far is a 10.7 and he's running it though a th400, Soon it will be in the 9's

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm still laughing at his speculation that the dsm82 spools faster than the bolton hx40 . Full song by 4100rpm? maybe. Faster? nope. Yes it is comparable. He'll 'be damed' to find a bolton gt35r that makes over 650whp too. Possible? Yep. But where is it 'better' in performance?

 

[PR_DSM]

has someone posted a thread for everything needed for a bolt on holset hx40?

 

[JusMX141]

It is rumored the small 16g was built for a small diesel platform (which would put the evo3 16g turbine in the diesel list)

I'd go along with that- hence the reason the Hahn Super 16G uses a compressor cover and turbine housing that I've never seen used on a factory gasoline-based application.

has someone posted a thread for everything needed for a bolt on holset hx40?

It's probably buried in one of the thousands of pages of info in the Holset threads, but you'll need pretty much everything normally required to run any turbo that is capable of massive airflow.

There are so many ways to go with this setup concerning housing and manifold choices, but the basic would be:

• Track down a good HX40 core.
• Buy a Bullseye Power Bolt-on turbine housing.
• Buy an external wastegate.
• Buy either a manifold or o2 housing to accept the wastegate, depending on your wastegate placement preference.
• Buy a -4AN oil supply line from the filter housing and a .075" restrictor for the turbo.
• Buy a Garrett T3-spec oil drain, or fab your own (make it as large as possible without any kinks).