Real Frankenstein, Opinions and Advice welcome

[Avatar_Squadron]

Long time lurker... lately my beloved 1g is driven me to having to post here...

So about a year ago a purchased a bit of a project car from a guy in my area. He listed it as a '93 GS w/ a 6-bolt Turbo swap. It was rough around the edges and needed some TLC, so I expected to get my hands dirty. At the time I was (still am) very wet behind the ears... i could tell you the difference between a 6bolt and a 7bolt and that was about it.

So, I had my clutch go bad and need to replace it. In the course of this, i realize my OE replacement pressure plate wont fit... my flywheel is flat and the OE plate wants a recessed flywheel. So, i dig into it and run some part numbers... and here's what i find out:

The car has the 2.0L 4g63 Engine. It's currently turbocharged. It might be a NT that the previous owner(s) slapped a turbo on. I'll need to confirm that eventually.

The clutch disk, bearing, plate, and flywheel are all the 8.5" variant for the 2.0L Non-turbo engine. Suspicious

The part number on my transmission.... is f5m22. The 1.8L 5speed manual!!

So, i'm really at a loss for what to do. From what i understand the f5m22 does not like the stress the turbo engine will put on it. How it's survived so far is a bit of a mystery... the previous owner DID NOT take care of the car very well (examples include installing the alternator upside down, never changing the oil, using 1 bolt in most places where 2 or 3 are needed... there was actually only one bolt holding the transmission to the engine when i bought it).

I have what i need to drop the proper 8 7/8" turbo clutch in it and i've tracked down several leads on turbo flywheels. Do you think the f5m22 trans will survive for awhile? This car is my DD and atm i'm in the process of restoring her to stock, so i'm not really making 'big power'. I've autocrossed her a couple of times and would like to continue doing so, but i'm not really int he market for serious drag racing at this time. I tried a quick look but none of teh salvage yards in the area have any turbo DSM's sitting around (lots of non turbo lasers actually...).

I've only found one f5m33 transmission online, used, for about $500 (which is more than i've seen AWD trans go for) + $299 shipping.

One idea that occurs to me, do you think i could purchase an f5m33 rebuild kit (bearings, gears, etc) and rebuild my f5m22 trans with these internals, or are the shafts and differences suspect as well.

 

[Bud92gsx]

The stock n't 1.8 tranny will hold up if you take it easy on her..But If you start getting into it, it's gonna break and fast...Then your going to be out more money and time..

My suggestion would be to take it easy on the new clutch or whatever you need in the 1.8 tranny..Track down a fwd turbo tanny, then swap in what you need to make it and actual "GST"..

 

[AK Maniak]

AWD swap time

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

The other thing i worry about, with this huge mismatch of parts, is that I'm running a non-turbo block that someone pasted a turbo to. The turbo has all the oil and water lines, havent checked to see if the knock sensor is there yet. What i worry about is the lack of oil squirters... not sure if i can check those w/o pulling the block apart.

Getting some adapters so I can test the compression ratio on the cylinders (my tester doesnt quite fit...). I doubt it would run with the NT pistons, but with the horrible shape the drive train is in I think it wont hurt to be careful. Any other advice on things i should double and triple check to avoid catastrophe?

 

[Bud92gsx]

AWD swap time

It would almost be easier for him to buy and awd shell and swap in his turbo engine..

What kinda boost is the car running..That should be able to give us a little more insight on what has been done to the engine, and to what engine is in there..Also it's still light outside go snap some pics of the engine.. That will help us help you!!!

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

It would almost be easier for him to buy and awd shell and swap in his turbo engine..

It's a very tempting option...

 

[Bud92gsx]

Put the computer down and go snap some damm pis please.....Thank you..Sorry to sound like an ass I just want to help you out..

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

It's running 8 psi. There's a MBC cable tied to the fan shroud. EGR's been removed.

I'll see about gettin' some pictures Later. Currently at work and the car is 20 miles away.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Get the pics so we can tell you exactly what you have..

BUT if the car is only running 8psi..I can almost bet its a n/t motor with a turbo modded onto it..Sounds like it's got the 1.8 and the guy you bought it off swapped a turbo onto it..

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

I turned it down to 8 with the MBC. It was pushing 10-12 when I bought it. For awhile it was boost-creeping up to 14 or 15 if i wasn't paying attention. Leaky PCV valve fixed that and now it stays on 8.

Any shots in particular that would be helpful? The tranny is dropped atm so the crank is exposed, and I could probably get an underside shot too.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Top side of the engine will give us enough visual info on what engine is in the car..If you think it's a 6 bolt get a pic of the crack bolts too why not..But topside of the engine would give us a chance to tell you if it's a 1.8 or 2.0..If it's a 2.0 Then were gonna have to figure out if the 2.0 is a turbo or n/t made turbo..

Also get a pic of the coldside of the turbo, where it should say tdo4 or tdo5..Actually you can just tell us what it says..Then possibly a pic of the compresor wheel, so we can tell you if it's a 14b or 16g..

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

Off the top of my head, there were 6 bolts on the crank, the locator pin was missing but it had the NT flywheel so that's to be expected.

The valve cover says DOHC and it definitely has two cams, judging by the timing belt.

I'll try to grab the info about the turbo and some pics of everything later tonight.

 

[Bud92gsx]

The n/t 4g63's were all 6 bolts...So you could have a n/t 4g63 made turbo..

But the car came with a 1.8..So the motor was swapped at some point.. But the X factor here still is the fact we don't know if it's a n/t 6 bolt or a 4g63T..

 

[97gst_spyder]

Not all were 6 bolt... I have a N/T 7 bolt block in my car now, and another sitting on an engine stand.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Not all were 6 bolt... I have a N/T 7 bolt block in my car now, and another sitting on an engine stand.

Really..That's news to me..So some of the 93's came with 7 bolt n/t 4g63's..

So it's like ultra rare like finding an origanal 6 bolt in a 93?

 

[Boostinsideways]

AWD swap time

Its not nearly as easy to do it in a 1g. Its not impossible, but its really really not easy.

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

Ok, picture time! Attached are:

1. Top side
2. Turbo + Manifold
3. shot of the left side of the turbo. There's stuff written here, not sure if it's the right part
4. Crank and a shot of the oilpan
5. The throttlebody. I question if it's a turbo TB as well. It has 1 vac source...

 

[Bud92gsx]

Well it is a 4g63 engine..I can asure you of that..No to figure out if it's a n/t or turbo engine..

 

[Boostinsideways]

Looks like the throttle body just had the extra nipples clipped and soldered closed. Non Turbo throttle bodies didn't have an elbow. They just had a straight bit to clamp the air cleaner to.

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

So, now I'm probably going to sound ADD, but I was browsing my local craigslist trying to get an idea of what a new f5m33 would cost me and I found someone trying to sell an AWD '93 Talon TSi Shell.

I took a drive out and had a look (you're going to yell at me, but i forgot to take pictures...). Here's the vitals.

Maroon '93 AWD Talon TSi
-Shell has 46,000 miles on it. Almost no rust at all. SOme on the rear control arms but that's it.
-It has pretty much everything from the flywheel back. No engine and no exhaust, but my car has both of those.
-As an added bonus, it comes with a 16g turbo off an evoIII (it looked nice. No rust, compressor wheel spun freely. Had the mitsubishi mark and the tdo5 markings)
-Fidanza Fly wheel. Looks in pretty good shape
-act2600 clutch. The Disk looked great, owner said it saw maybe 20 miles before he blew his head. The pressure plate looked a bit dirty and maybe some surface rust on the fingers.
-Brand new radiator

The car's basically been sitting in a barn for the last 6 years.
The transmission leaked some oil out of one of the drive shaft holes when we were movin' it around to see it from all sides, so it's probably had oil in it the whole time. The housing wasnt rusty.

A whole mess of parts other parts too. Said pretty much anything that matched the car I could have included in the asking price.

The back left wheel seemed like either the bearing was siezed or the brake caliper was clamped on. Previous owner said he'd suggest replacing the bearings and the brakes (the bearings were pretty cheap on rock auto though and my FWD brakes should work).

Looks like i'd need to just swap in my engine and replace some lines.

The downside is everything is really torn apart so it'd be a project. I know a couple of guys with big trucks and full car trailers i could bribe to help me move it. What do you guys think? From what i saw a f5m33 tranny is going to cost probably $500 before shipping or gas for a pick up. The shell is excellent condition, much better than my FWD shell, and it's an AWD to boot.

Seller is asking $1000 for everything. Kind of making a 180 on this thread...
If it's teetering and you guys would want to see some pics, i could probably drive out again and snap a few or have the owner do so.

 

[tmaxx411]

For that price, I'd snatch that AWD up real fast.

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

So it's been awhile since my last post.

I've been trying to restore my eclipse to the way it was (trying to find a f5m33 is bit hard) before the clutch broke. I figure it lasted for a good while under a bad owner, so it should be ok for awhile...

(i bought the aforementioned Talon... but that's a bit of a project and i need to get a car working now so i can give my father back is car)


Anyways... i'm having some serious issues with this clutch. I have a haynes and chilton's manual to follow along in and a father with lots of car experiance, but we're stumped. We've now killed 2 release bearings (not counting the one the died originally) and that's only with a moment of contact. EVerything is bolted up nice and tight, but the clutch fork seems like it doesnt want to stay still. I have a video to illustrate this:

Warning: Graphic Images Contained Within

I cant find any pieces we're missing... we reassembled things as we saw when we removed it and how both manuals state. it's like we're missing some vital piece that holds the fork steady, but we couldnt figure out what that would be. Maybe it got destroyed when the original release bearing grenaded.

We have pressure plate, fly wheel, clutch disk. These are all aligned nicely. The alignment tool drops into the splines and right into the alignment hole on the flywheel like there were a solid piece. The pressure plate is bolted on tight.

The transmission has the shaft, the release fork, the release bearing, and a metal wire clip to hold the release bearing to the fork. The ball stud the fork mounts on is solid, the fork snaps onto it nice and firm. The clutch kit contained a small bearing, but it's too big to fit in the flywheel alignment hole and too small to fit over the input shaft of the tranny. My father says it's probably a generic release bearing kit and the bearing was for an input shaft that has a stub that mounts into the flywheel, which this car lacks. The clutch kit lacks any instructions (of course) and neither manual mentioned any other bearings or holders for clutch installation or release fork removal.

Really kinda stumped here. If you need pictures of the tranny and or clutch set up, they'll have to wait until Wednesday or the weekend. That's the next time i'll be able to work on the car unfortunately.

 

[Avatar_Squadron]

Hrm. So after looking around and comparing to the AWD transmission, i think the issue is that when the original throw-out bearing went, it broke off the part of the housing that sheaths the input shaft up to the splines.

This would in theory hold the throw out bearing stable which is what seems to be the problem at the moment. Going to have a local fabricator make some aluminum pipe with the proper OD and ID to replace it and try to weld it on.

 

[superpenguin]

i live like 2.5 to 3 hour from you and i know there is at least two trans here in the junk yard

 

[RipperXX]

Honestly, if I were you. I would abandon that thing, as in just sell it at a reasonable price. And look for another DSM. Might be cheaper in the long run, vs fixing all that bull shit, plus maintenance, plus mods.