Need some help finding these piston rings.

[donnie2783]

OK I need to find some 0.050 piston rings for my motor. It runs find but it smokes bad and its annoying. It only smokes when I rev it up but its annoying honestly. im fixing to replace the head gasket on it and while im at it I want to change the rings also. But I can not find anyone who sells them. If anyone can give me a link or number to a performance store who does I would appreciate it. OH and it is for the 1g 6bolt 4g63 engine. thanks.

 

[Calan]

You probably need to take the pistons to a machine shop and have them measured; the shop can order the correct rings. You'll also need to check the grooves and make sure the end gaps are set correctly when the rings are installed, and you'll need the cylinders honed as well. And since the pistons and rods are coming out, you may as well check the bearing wear and clearances while you're at it.

I'm a little confused by your post, but if you are planning on doing all of this while the engine is still in the car... you should realize that you are only an extra hour or two of work away from just pulling the motor and doing a proper inspection/rebuild.

If you knew all of this already and just wanted to know of a ring vendor... nevermind.

 

[dsm-onster]

Are you sure it is bored .05" over? receipt from the shop? Most bore .02 .04 .06 over. . . And .06 over is the stock 4g64 bore. Check it.

Listening to Craig above, you will do this check and automatically get what you need.

 

[MY1GDSM]

People just want spoon feed these days...

I'm guessing you meant...

.50mm oversize as in .020"

PISTONS AND RINGS

Id tear it apart first could have cracked a ring land... here's a whole set ring an pistons couldn't have looked to hard. I'm sure the seller has just rings...

 

[donnie2783]

Im just mainly looking for somewheres to buy the rings. Well my pistons have 0.050 stamped ontop of the pistons. im going to pull the motor out to do it. It's strong and fast right now and runs great but I cant stand it smoking. I don't like the machine shops around here. They will do work you didnt ask for then over charge you. I also need to do a little more removal on the oil filter housing to drop my oil pressure a little more. I have all the gaskets I just need to find the piston rings and then when I take it apart I will see about the bearrings. Honestly if I had the money I would just go with a stroker kit but for now I just want to find me some piston rings to stop the smoking .Oh and those aren't the right oversize. Show me where they have .050 rings then say I haven't looked hard enough hahahaha.

 

[dsm-onster]

Have you checked compression? Leak down test? It could be something just as simple as a gummed up pcv valve . . .

And show us pictures of "0.050" stamped on the pistons, or most of us will think you have the decimal and the units off. . . Since there is a controversy, yes, measure the pistons and report back.

 

[Calan]

Have you checked compression? Leak down test? It could be something just as simple as a gummed up pcv valve . . .

Or valve seals, turbo, bad gas, etc.

I would definitely need to have a pretty good reason to tear apart a healthy motor because of a little smoke from an unverified issue.

 

[donnie2783]

Well thats why I havent tore it apart yet.The original head had bad compression for some reason,but after I changed the head on it the compression is very strong. I know its nothing with the compression. and thats fresh gas thats in it. If I am right if the turbo was bad it would have a cloud of smoke behind it wouldn't it? Well I dont want to take the head off right now with it still running but when I do take it back apart i will take some pics. I would also like to know the name of the piston because that will make it easy to find the rings. but it still runs great and strong so right now I am going to see bout sourcing parts. I will probably take it apart next month after I get better from surgery that I am going to have next week.But sure.. As soon as I do take it apart I will take some pics of the size stamp.One thing I have noticed there seems to be a lot of air coming out of the valve cover vent that goes to the air intake. This is my first 4g63 so I don't know if thats normal or not.

 

[Calan]

One thing I have noticed there seems to be a lot of air coming out of the valve cover vent that goes to the air intake. This is my first 4g63 so I don't know if thats normal or not.

Sounds like your PCV is shot, and you could also be blowing oil from the crankcase straight into the intake and causing the smoke. Did you happen to catch Matt's post up there ^ about the PCV valve?

Here's some reading for you if you are bored or curious: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

Personally, I would fix up the PCV system and do a leak-down test on it...and if everything else checks out I would drive the piss out of it until I had a good reason to rebuild it. At that point you'll want upgraded pistons anyway, so your original question will be irrelevant.

 

[donnie2783]

I seen it. im going to go check the PCV valve right now.I didnt think bout it blowing oil into the intake. I know it smokes more when I rev it up.

Well I unhooked the pcv and there was alot of oil in the hose. so I just bocked it off and and drove it around and it seemed like it didnt do it so bad. So i'm going to drive it around a little again tomorrow and see if it continues to improve or not.

Well changing the pcv didn't help. It still smokes.The more i rev it the more it smokes so i'm still leaning to piston rings. It don't smoke when i first start it so I know its not the valve stem seals.

 

[dsm-onster]

Don't block off the pcv valve. The engine NEEDS that vent. The other vent on the valve cover is not enough.

I've had clogged pcv valves with several sirius motors. They all took a little driving around after replacing the valve for them to clear up. And all pcv valves except Mitsu is junk. GP Sorensen repachages the OE valve and do do some other companies. But must valves you get from autozone/oreily's/advance/etc don't work properly at all.

I would check the turbo next.

Don't be silly enough to pull the pistons when you don't even have a basic compression tester.

 

[donnie2783]

OK. Well it blew out what I had blocking it anyways haha. Would it hurt to run some Seafoam through the intake being it's turbo charged?. I found out my turbo is an ebay turbo and that the WGA wasn't adjusted right. I adjusted it ,and now it don't smoke as bad. I had to turn the boost down since it's all working properly because I'm still on the stock fuel system and its hitting fuel cut bad.Just for the fun of it I am going to pull a compression check later today when it cools down some. When I do i will be posting the numbers.

One other thing.. Even if the oil rings are bad that won't affect the compression if I am right.

 

[dsm-onster]

Blew out? Is something sucked in to the valve cover? Or did it go out to the engine bay? Why won't you check compression? Yes bad rings will make the compression go down. Hense why I am asking you to check compression. . .

If you have an ebay turbo, then that's the likely cause of your smoking issue. But what's so bad about a simple compression check????

 

[Calan]

I'm still trying to get my head around "the WGA wasn't adjusted right. I adjusted it ,and now it don't smoke as bad".

How does adjusting the WGA cause the car to not smoke as much? Some type of fuel-related (aka black smoke) issue due to a change in boost level....maybe. But even that isn't likely unless adjusting the WGA upped the boost enough that the car stopped running overly rich.

Just do a compression and leak-down test on it already!

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/338152-compression-leak-down-testing.html

 

[dsm-onster]

If it's an ebay turbo, lower boost would make the wheels wobble less (ebay turbo here) . So less oil would slip past the seal rings.

I'm sure he hasn't done a boost leak test. Lowering the boost to below the point a couple leaks or just blowing out less air means less difference in metered air and actual; black smoke could be reduced.

OP, do a boost leak test, compression test, leak down test. Take a pic of your plugs, post it up here. Timing check even. Double check your cam gears as being on time, too. Pretty much all the maintenance work. Get a logger and tell us what the injector duty cycle is and if your o2 sensor is cycling. If you plan on ever modifying this car, you must have a logger anyhow.

And you really can't be serious that you have .05" over pistons. At least check the motor out before pulling it apart. 1) boost leak test, 2) compression/leak-down test, 3) check your turbo's shaft play. I'm not going to tell you to do these three things again.

 

[Calan]

Lowering the boost to below the point a couple leaks or just blowing out less air means less difference in metered air and actual; black smoke could be reduced.

Very good point. I didn't even consider the possibility that it may have dropped boost below a leak threshold at this level.

 

[donnie2783]

It blew it into the engine bay. I never said I wasn't going to do a compression test haha. I'm going to get the rest of the pieces to finish my boost leak tester. Well hopefully soon I can start to afford things like logging equipment and better mods and a wide band. I'm currently unemployed so I had to sell stuff just to get this thing running haha.I know bad compression rings will cause low compression. Thats the point but what i was saying is a bad "oil ring" won't lower the compression if I'm right.The turbo shaft has no side to side ,or in and out play. I checked that when I changed the head.But tomorrow when i get back with the last 2 parts to build the boost leak tester I'm going to pull a leak test. I am sure i do have boost leaks even though every one of the vacuum lines are brand new.well ever since I fixed the wga situation my boost controller works fine.It's a mbc. and it don't smoke as bad when I rev it or hit boost. Oh and before I adjusted the wga it wouldn't move from forcing it shut and not able to open.Well in the morning I will do the compression test then post the numbers for y'all.When I get enough I am going to invest in the ecm link setup.

Well for the record I didn't block off the pcv valve itself I blocked off the hose going into the intake haha. Well bringing my mom to work today on the way back something went wrong. I got smoked out inside my car.Theres now smoke coming out the exhaust whenever I give it any throttle smoke comes out of the vent tube thats supposed to hook into the intake. I also noticed oil on the exhaust manifold right at the head????It was doing good it stopped smoking and everything. I have the boost controller set on 10 lbs so I know it wasn't because of too much boost. and now my interior rinks of oil smoke haha.What exactly would cause it to blow smoke out of the valve cover vent?. and to come out between the exhaust manifold and head? No it's not leaking down from the valve cover .

Oh and I forgot to mention when it started smoking it started missing. I finally got my hands on the compression tester to pull the compression, and with it having the miss. The compression is as follows 4/150 ,3/149 ,2/30 ,1/150 and when I checked it this morning it had 150 across the board.Well it looks like i'm going to be pulled out the motor later on today ,or tomorrow. Well pulling the head off atleast. then i can get y'all the pics of the stamped size on the piston.

 

[donnie2783]

Ok well I was off about the size of the pistons. It's 0.50. I was close though haha. The pistons are soaked in oil. My intercooler has oil in it. My intake don't have oil in it and neither does my turbo? Well I don't see any though. How hard is it to change the seal in the turbo anyways.Well time for me to find some arp head studs,I already got a head gasket set.And time to hunt down some piston rings for it .

Quick question. How my piston has 0.50 stamped on it. Would that mean 0.020 bore? Or?

 

[dsm-onster]

.5mm = .020" overbore. . .

 

[donnie2783]

Well the cylinder wall has an odd scar on it in the number 2 cylinder. so I know what happened to the rings. now I got to get the cylinder bored out. thanks everyone for y'alls help.

 

[dsm-onster]

Pictures?

 

[donnie2783]

I actually got a thread about it with pictures. Oh and every one of the piston ring lands are broke .Thats why I had all the blow by ,and loss of compression.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/399129-weird-scar-cylinder-wall-how.html

 

[Calan]

Why did you start a new thread?

 

[donnie2783]

Well the other thread is trying to ask what could have caused that scar ,but it seems to be getting off topic .