Cyclone vs Honda intake manifold.

[killercolt]

I finally got a chance to do a comparison test between the Honda intake manifold and the cyclone intake manifold. The tests are on the same day with relatively the same conditions.

Here are the mods that my friend told me are on the car:
2.4l 7 bolt block
Manley flat top pistons (calculated 9.2:1)
88mm 7 bolts Cosworth crank
162mm super long Manley rods
1g head with light street port
Stock size ss valves
Manley springs and retainers
BC 272/272 combo
Cometic head gasket
Kings bearings
Bs elimination
Shep stage 3 transmission
Act 2600 with 4 pucks disc
Fp turbo manfold with home made Mitsubishi to t3 adapter
Gt3582r with .63 a/r
Hks electronic boost controller
Tial 44mm wastegate (10-12psi springs)
3" exhaust
4" vrs intercooler kit
Ecmlink v3 full version
2g unhack maf
1200cc RC injectors
Bosch Full pump (forgot the number but it is not a 044)
Unicorn blood (E85)


Here is the graph of the run with a "cyclone intake manifold" at 22psi. Timing was around 14-16 degrees. It is not too bad for 22psi. Turbo is a little laggy for a .63 a/r. I believe it's is due to the weak wastegate spring.

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Here is the engine pic with cyclone intake manifold:

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Here is another pic with the cyclone intake manifold:

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These are pics of the Honda intake manifold on the same car. This is a 2g Gsx. Notice how well the Honda intake manifold fits. It fits all DSM'sand CSM's.

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I am pointing at a perfect mounting point for the ignition coil

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Now for the comparison. Try to look at the conditions of each run. They are hard to see on the graphs. The conditions are very close to be the same. I try to be as fair as I can with the comparison. No ignition timing change was made. I try to get the afr to be the same only to keep it safe. Boost is 22psi for both intake manifolds


This graph shows the hp different. The cyclone made 3 more peak hp. The Honda intake shined after 7200rpm. There is 14-18hp more with the Honda intake manifold after 7200rpm. From 3000rpm to 7200rpm, it looks like the Honda intake manifold performed similar to the cyclone intake. At some points in the down low and in the midrange, the Honda intake some what edged pass the cyclone manifold. The cyclone butterfly instantly opened at 3000rpm since the vacuum line was ran directly to the actuator.

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This graph has the correlating tq readings of the two hp readings in the graph above.
Notice how the Honda intake manifold made more tq after 7200rpm and down low too.

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Notice tq advantage from 4000rpm to 5000rpm for the Honda intake manifold. The cyclone intake manifold has a little more tq around 5200-6600rpm.

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Notice tq advantage from 4000rpm to 5000rpm for the Honda intake manifold. The cyclone intake manifold has a little more tq around 5200-6600rpm.

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This graph is with the Honda intake manifold. The turbo spiked to 25psi and bounce between 23-24psi. The weak 10-12psi wastegate spring was causing a lot of unstable boost during the Dyno session. I believe it makes the curves look wavy. My friend really need to have at least a 16-18psi wastegate spring. Hope get one soon. You can hear the turbo flutter during the pulls after 16psi. As you can see, the Honda intake manifold will support 500+hp and makes pretty good tq too. This was out last run. We ran out of fuel for some reason.

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[gixrman]

That's interesting. My first thought is how the Honda manifold compares to a stock 2g intake manifold. From the comparison done before the stock manifold started loosing power up top. The cyclone intake was good for low end pull but fell off up top. Now you did this on a 2.4 and there was only a 3hp difference up top with really no difference in mid range were the cyclone should shin. Can you give any rough specs like runner length?

 

[killercolt]

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The block might be 2.4l but it is suppose to be 2.1l with the 88mm crank. I don't know if you can really get 100cc more from going with a 87mm bore but that is what is said.

During the test, I added a 2" section of pipe and another coupler to the upper intercooler pipe for it to reach correctly.

 

[CrackedDSM]

This test is flawed. The cyclone performs the best when it opens at 4200-4500 range so any "gains" the honda manifold had over the cyclone in torque above 3000 is irrelevant. Properly actuated the cyclone would've kicked its ass in torque down low and in the midrange, which is what the cyclone was designed for. Glad you like it but I'm sticking with my cyclone.

 

[DanielMandon]

Agreed - you neutered the cyclone with a 3000 rpm activation and then tried to make a comparison. I'm sorry but this just isn't a valid comparison test.

 

[killercolt]

The test might be invalid up to 4500rpm where the cyclone is suppose to shine with the butterflies closed. However, anything above 5000rpm is a fair comparison. I tested the benefit of the butterflies before on my own car. I did not see any gain from 2500rpm to 4000rpm by keeping the butterfly closed. A member on here recently tested the benefit of the butterflies and saw insignificant gain. He posted the thread this week. I forgot which section he posted it in.


For about 15-18hp more up top, a lot of guys are not going to ditch their cyclone intake manifold for sure. If you have a little time and skill, it is not a bad mod to do from what I am seeing. I seen more gain on my other friend's car which make it worth trying. Right now a brand new knock off Skunk 2 Honda intake manifold can be bought on Ebay for 105 bux shipped. Try finding a Cyclone intake manifold right now if you don't have one. It will be hard to find one. However, I got 5 cyclone intake manifolds for sale if anyone are interested. I have two with the white canisters, one with a 14b actuator, one with the butterfly removed and one without the canister. Just pm me if you want one.

 

[ceedawg]

My dude without the actuator properly setup where the butterflies are supposed to react as they should electronically and with vacuum,no one here is going to see your testing as valid. Especially since you mentioned that the wastegate spring is going wacko then try to validate your findings by saying a members car had similar results with little gain . I'm sorry!

 

[killercolt]

This is the recent post I was talking about. I did the same test before with my own car.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/stroker-tech/460830-2-4-g4cs-cyclone-intake-dyno-test.html

Look around 4000-4500rpm in his run. You can see that keeping the butterflies close to long can hurt the power production.

Here is a pic of his dyno test for quick reference.

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I kept the tests around 22psi to keep the boost more stable for a good comparison. As you can see, the power bands and afr curves for both manifolds are pretty smooth at 22psi.

 

[CrackedDSM]

You are doing something wrong then and so is he, as proven by the "if you keep the butterflies closed too long..." statement. Fact is anyone with a properly actuated cyclone that is sealed tight with good gaskets and no leaks or cracks can perform this test at home. Unhook the actuator so the butterflies are open, make a pull. Hook the actuator up and open it at 4500rpms, and make another pull. There will be a drastic difference. Power gains up top are insignificant between the cyclone and Honda manifold as well, because its well documented the cyclone loses 3cfm over the stock IM. You don't get a cyclone if you're looking for top end, period.

Like I said, glad you like the Honda IM, but this shows nothing but what is already known. The cyclone is better at producing torque on the low-mid range, and bringing the power on sooner, but the cyclone tapers off where as the Honda manifold picks up steam. It's not worth the time or money, as I'm more interested in low-mid range power and quick spooling turbo as my car is a dedicated street car. Cost is insignificant as well. I'd rather pay more money for a better part that bolts on as opposed to some other manifold for a completely different car.

 

[killercolt]

This is the dyno run from years ago of cyclone vs stock intake.
This guy actually got the cyclone to make more than the factory intake manifold but you can see that slight different in afr. The test with the cyclone is slightly leaner which can give a slight advantage to the cyclone. However the gain down low is too significant for such a small different in afr. This one indicate that the cyclone has a advantage down low over the stocker. The guy above is not seeing that gain with his 2.4l.

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Crackerdsm. Can you go out and make some pull with you car and post your log for us. I like to see the air flow with the butterfly working on you car. I just want to see the runs from 2000-5000rpm. You can do the test as you mentioned above. It will help me out a lot. I want a fair comparison to determine if I should take my cyclone off my car too. I am in the process of rebuilding my automatic so I can not do test on my car.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

This test is flawed. The cyclone performs the best when it opens at 4200-4500 range so any "gains" the honda manifold had over the cyclone in torque above 3000 is irrelevant. Properly actuated the cyclone would've kicked its ass in torque down low and in the midrange, which is what the cyclone was designed for. Glad you like it but I'm sticking with my cyclone.

I couldn't agree more... I set my Cyclone's flapper activation point to 4200 (activated via DSMLink V3). From a roll, I doubt it had any noticable difference in gains/losses vs my old 1g Extrude-Honed IM.

The largest improvement/benefit from the Cyclone (in my case) was the effect it had on staging time. In other words, the amount of time spent on the line brake-boosting until it reached full launch boost potential.

I suspect that the dyno results wouldn't reflect any of this though, as we wouldn't be stalling-up as if we would be launching out of the hole. -But I guess that could just be an A\T thing.

 

[nitrouskris]

What honda intake manifold did you use ? part n brand ?

 

[killercolt]

This car has the fake skunk2 from eBay. It is 103 bux shipped now. Look for b18c or b16a. Don't get the b18b one. The really skunk2 is nicer.

 

[Rich Spoolin Popp]

Killercolt do you still have a cyclone intake manifold for sale

 

[94awdcoupe]

This car has the fake skunk2 from eBay. It is 103 bux shipped now. Look for b18c or b16a. Don't get the b18b one. The really skunk2 is nicer.

on ebay there is no difference. b18b is same as b18c or b16a.

does anyone know how the injector holes were plugged? and if there were any type of flange porting done to match 1g port size?

I am tempted to try one of these with a 2g flange welded on with proper port blending. compare it to evo 3 intake.

 

[babyviper]

I appreciate all the testing and effort put into this project but seeing honda parts used on a DSM makes my blood boil

 

[keltalon]

I appreciate all the testing and effort put into this project but seeing honda parts used on a DSM makes my blood boil

Do you mind expounding on why? Thanks.

 

[babyviper]

Do you mind expounding on why? Thanks.

I'm not sure if you own a honda or anything but if you have been in the DSM or EVO world for any length of time, you would realize that Honda's and Mitsu's are like Chevy and Ford. They generally don't play well together.

 

[keltalon]

I'm not sure if you own a honda or anything but if you have been in the DSM or EVO world for any length of time, you would realize that Honda's and Mitsu's are like Chevy and Ford. They generally don't play well together.

I asked because I do own an acura integra b18b1 and the eclipse love both cars equally. Never seen them as ford and chevy .

 

[94awdcoupe]

dsm forums are sterile to intake manifolds. kind of like the blind leading the blind. amazing how many times I see people using truly crappy intake manifolds. evo forums are just the opposite. tremendous number of manifolds tested with extreme scrutiny. no body uses crappy manifolds. as it turns out skunk made a cast manifold for the evo 8 and it quite frankly rocks. maybe one of the top three choices from literally twenty or more.

I think this whole test was a just a bad joke to people. just wasnt done with good technique. I think this manifold will work really well done right. I think i am going to do some testin on my own. came up with really simple idea on how to make this work right. poeple will follow when they see what i discovered.

 

[killercolt]

There are differences between the b18b, b18c5, b16a, and b18c1 intake manifolds. The easiest one to modify is the junk2 or real skunk2 b18c1 intake manifold for a integra gsr. Don't use the b18b intake manifold because the runners are smaller.


I got two kids now so it been kinda hard to go to my friend's Dyno to messed around. From what I seen, this is a fun mod to do because it give you a good power band.

 

[killercolt]

dsm forums are sterile to intake manifolds. kind of like the blind leading the blind. amazing how many times I see people using truly crappy intake manifolds. evo forums are just the opposite. tremendous number of manifolds tested with extreme scrutiny. no body uses crappy manifolds. as it turns out skunk made a cast manifold for the evo 8 and it quite frankly rocks. maybe one of the top three choices from literally twenty or more.

I think this whole test was a just a bad joke to people. just wasnt done with good technique. I think this manifold will work really well done right. I think i am going to do some testin on my own. came up with really simple idea on how to make this work right. poeple will follow when they see what i discovered.

You will be laughing your butts off when you see the gain. We did when we saw what happened. We were all about the highest average power band when we were exploring the longer runners intake manifold. The honda intake manifold was just the cheapest and quickest way to see what will happen. If you have a manual tranny it matters what kind of intake manifold you have. This is because the rpm can drop to about 4500-5500 after a redline shift. If you have an intake manifold that mostly make top end power, the time slower than you you might expect. I swap my car to automatic so I did not care about power below 7000rpm. It does not drop below 7000rpm after each shift with the auto. The auto does not seem to hold any tq or power down low. This make test the intake manifold for mid range impossible. I will build a test car this year to test some parts for you guy. I am going to use Ecmlink so you guys analyze the data better.

 

[413mudman]

My cyclone comes on @ 3k and pulls strong, the Hobbs switch is set for it but I can change it. I have an MHI Evo 3 16g matching exhaust manifold and O2 housing . No boost set up so I have no idea what it's actual boost psi it is. I'd assume 12psi.

 

[94awdcoupe]

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my idea was to use the 95 hyundai cylinder head. thats the lower one in the picture. the upper is 2g ports. the port size looks to be a very good match. the heads are also available bran new for around 625. I spent some time researching intake manifolds on the honda forums and it just made my head spin. glad I modify 4g63s

 

[GSXgreen]

It looks like the same head. Did you use it? Did it work?