600hp harmonic balancer stock or aftermarket?

[an orange crayon]

I'm planning to move up to 600hp from my 400 now, I'm swapping out this jdm engine for a built bottom end, my question, is the OEM harmonic balancer enough or is everyone using the fluidampr one. I dont see it mentioned in build threads.

 

[92AWDHX40]

If you have the money go for it, but I rarely ever see anyone put money into that part of the build I mostly see in on drag cars, versus everything else, In fact I never saw on a dsm in the past 20 years of being around these things.

 

[TSIfreek]

The ATI dampeners is the one to get. If you can afford it go for it as its a great investment on an expensive motor. You dont see many guys using the upgraded dampeners as you dont see them and everyone is all about what you see when you pop the hood. The ATI damperners do work and are far better for the crank and bearings than the OEM.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

ATI or fluidampr will work fine.

 

[boostfeddGSX]

I have an ATI on my gsx that makes 500hp it's a nice piece. Stick with the stock one or get an Ati.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I have a stock one and will still ise a stock one. I think jeff bush even ran stock for a long time

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

If you have eliminated the balance shafts and are running aftermarket internals the harmonics of the engine have changed and running a stock dampener will do you no good since it's tuned for a specific frequency. For you guys that are recommending ATI over everything else with no explanation would you care to elaborate for us?

 

[NHerron]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/374411-attention-all-fluidampr-users.html

Stock bolts aren't long enough when upgrading it seems.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I havent had any problems with the stock balancer.

 

[PrimerPLus]

I use the Fluidampr.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/374411-attention-all-fluidampr-users.html

Stock bolts aren't long enough when upgrading it seems.

Depending on the year you got your fluidampr. Go to page 2 of that thread.

 

[mitsubishikid]

Well if you don't have the money right now, just use a good condition stock unit, save up your money and budget for the fluidampr upgraded one, and install it later it's not like swapping them out is a chore...well as long as you have all the tools/skills etc.

I like the fluidampr unit, better then stock unit, and half the cost of the ati.
The ati is also a good quality unit, but more $$$ too.
ether over stock when you get the chance.
and Nherron brought up a good point thanks for the link.

 

[an orange crayon]

Sweet thanks guys, I think I'll end up with a fluidamper. Probably right at the start seeing as I'm running all forged internals, although I plan to run balance shafts, unless I really see a reason not to. I havnt looked into it much though, is it not just to shed weight from the rotating assembly?

 

[Archer Fabrications]

If your rotating assembiky was balanced and blueprinted it shouldnt really matter if your on a stock damper or not forged internals or otherwise. Thats just my opinion.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Kyle, it doesn't matter if the assembly is balanced perfectly, the engine still creates harmonics. Blueprinting has absolutely nothing to do with it. Just because we can use a factory dampener and it doesn't break does not mean that it is doing its job.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Well people are saying itll destroy your forged motor and i disagree

 

[keltalon]

The ATI dampeners is the one to get. If you can afford it go for it as its a great investment on an expensive motor. You dont see many guys using the upgraded dampeners as you dont see them and everyone is all about what you see when you pop the hood. The ATI damperners do work and are far better for the crank and bearings than the OEM.

I second this statement I run the ati damper and couldn't be more than satisfied! Read this http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...er-pulleys-understanding-harmonic-damper.html

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

If your rotating assembiky was balanced and blueprinted it shouldnt really matter if your on a stock damper or not forged internals or otherwise. Thats just my opinion.

You've forgotten about one important detail: Combustion.

 

[SonySlave]

If you plan on doing any racing at tracks that do full NHRA inspection, you'll need an SFI-approved harmonic balancer (crank pulley) if you're anything quicker than 10.99. 600hp is more than enough to run 10s. Now, I've never been to a non-NHRA event that checked the balancer for SFI cert, even tracks that are hardcore to the NHRA rules (I run 9s with a stock 1G balancer still). Just something to keep in mind. Thankfully for us, both the ATI and Fluidampr are SFI-approved and meet the NHRA requirement.

 

[lasthope05]

Well people are saying itll destroy your forged motor and i disagree

You're getting a motor built to run a 67mm turbo. I dont think you should be skimping out on getting a harmonic dampener because somebodies past setup from years ago worked well. Times have changed and technology has advanced so much the recent years. Most people, including myself,were ignorant of harmonics back in the late 90s early 2000's. Just like how keydiver/safc or vpc/gccwere the standard tuning device to todays dsmlink.

You need to do research on torsional vibrations and the role they play on main bearings on high output motors. Its not as noticeable on a 2.0 but is more pronoounced on 2.3/2.4 if you try to turn them up. A balanced motor has nothing to do with harmonics. Thats why SMIM are designed with this in mind as the valves open and close they momentarily stop airflow thus creating a similar harmonic wave(cylinder firing/piston moving down) that must be dampened/equalize.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'm not getting a motor build i have had my motor built since 2011 and have been running 13k miles with 35r sized turbos at 30+psi revving 8600rpm on a stock head with cams. With not a single issue.

2.0 with ACL race bearings main and rod with all ARP hardware.

If you plan on doing any racing at tracks that do full NHRA inspection, you'll need an SFI-approved harmonic balancer (crank pulley) if you're anything quicker than 10.99. 600hp is more than enough to run 10s. Now, I've never been to a non-NHRA event that checked the balancer for SFI cert, even tracks that are hardcore to the NHRA rules (I run 9s with a stock 1G balancer still). Just something to keep in mind. Thankfully for us, both the ATI and Fluidampr are SFI-approved and meet the NHRA requirement.

This. And I'll swap one out when I'm required to.

I talked to jeff bush about this when i had a 7boly pulley on my 6bolt that they wanted me to change out, i asked if i ahould get a fluidamper and he said no 6bolt is fine. It's what ive been running. And this was 2012? So what ever numbers he was running then.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

The problems associated with running a stock dampener are not problems that you will see or feel. All you're doing it shortening the life of your bearings. I did the same thing as you for a very, very long time, but all along knew that I should really be running an ATI or Fluidampr. I skimped out on it because I'd seen/heard of plenty of people that were at similar power levels that were running stock. I went back and re-read all the available information on stock vs aftermarket dampeners and really couldn't believe that I skimped out all these years. This time around I was not going to pull the wool over my own eyes and continue to run the stock dampener so I went with a Fluidampr. Like I said before, just because you nor I, or anybody else really, has broken a new/good condition stock dampener doesn't mean that everything is hunky dory.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'm swapping out the bearings this winter if i have to get a new oil pan to run thr fp blue drain (have a -12
Welded and if the flange doesnt fit the fp pan is off) and if pan is off i will put new rod bearings and possibly mains. Might as well freshen things up while it's open if i have to open it at all.

I'll see what more have to say and maybe I'll get an sfi one but all I'm sayin is havent had any issues yet. And bushmasta said otherwise as well to me.

 

[lasthope05]

I'm not getting a motor build i have had my motor built since 2011 and have been running 13k miles with 35r sized turbos at 30+psi revving 8600rpm on a stock head with cams. With not a single issue.

2.0 with ACL race bearings main and rod with all ARP hardware.




This. And I'll swap one out when I'm required to.

I talked to jeff bush about this when i had a 7boly pulley on my 6bolt that they wanted me to change out, i asked if i ahould get a fluidamper and he said no 6bolt is fine. It's what ive been running. And this was 2012? So what ever numbers he was running then.

Im pretty sure you are building/getting a new motor built. I remember you wanting to use all of of magnus' parts on your spare motor.

A stock balancer was designed for mid rpm harmonics and if you are sticking to stock redline it would be no problem. The thing is you are not. Thats were the aftermarket dampers comes into play. The fluidampr is designed for harmonics in the upper rpm range were your motor will mostly be at and a ATI kind of seen as an "active damper" which works well through out the entire range.

Let me ask you this. How do you know your motors fine? How hard do you actually drive it? How often does the motor stay in the upper rpms? How often do you pull the bearings to check for wear? A race motor is different then a daily driver where as it lives in the upper rpms vs the bottom end. A car that sees a lot of street duty only realistically get pushed hard a small percentage of its life.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Im pretty sure you are building/getting a new motor built. I remember you wanting to use all of of magnus' parts on your spare motor.

A stock balancer was designed for mid rpm harmonics and if you are sticking to stock redline it would be no problem. The thing is you are not. Thats were the aftermarket dampers comes into play. The fluidampr is designed for harmonics in the upper rpm range were your motor will mostly be at and a ATI kind of seen as an "active damper" which works well through out the entire range.

Let me ask you this. How do you know your motors fine? How hard do you actually drive it? How often does the motor stay in the upper rpms? How often do you pull the bearings to check for wear? A race motor is different then a daily driver where as it lives in the upper rpms vs the bottom end. A car that sees a lot of street duty only realistically get pushed hard a small percentage of its life.

What happens if your fluidamper freezes in the winter?

My spare is for fabrication of manifolds i was only tossing around the idea of building it and i certianly won't until my current is gone.

I push the car to 7500 mulitpule times per drive, at the track 8500

I havent checked bearings yet but might be this winter for reasons i just stated.

I drive it like a raped ape.

She used to be a daily but shed got abused hard on the streets.

I'm reading fluidampers product description right now. Looks interesting. And I'm not saying anyone is wrong, just that i havnt had an issue with spun bearings or anything and I'm in upper rpms often. Not 9k or anything but still up there

 

[PrimerPLus]

Just another tip.
The fluidampr is slightly larger in diameter than stock and so you will need a larger alternator belt to fit it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/433189-gates-blue-belts-fluidampr.html

Post #9 tells size difference