2007 Plans? What will you be working on in the offseason?

[my_precious]

yeah, what kyle said....accept for him telling me fwd was not ideal was not new to me. ive realized over research upon research that you can not have the perfect track car, at least not without some money. pick either a car you enjoy driving or like the looks of and go from there OR pick a class and build a car to win in that class. either way dont do what i've been trying to do and figure out what the best car is under xx sercumstances because it'll drive you nuts. today kyle took me out in his car and it is very quick in the corners so i know for a fact FWD isnt a bad think, its just not "my" thing because i hate understeering. on the street, understeering means going into the ditch unlike the track where you usually go off and slide on the grass (usually). RWD is great for dry situations but as I saw today RWD with big power and slicks in the rain is no good. AWD isnt best at really anything besides maybe drag racing (and even then the car has to be built for it) but it is good in all areas. It just depends on what you like really and going from there. Now if you have a problem with deciding what you like in a car....no one can help you there but you haha.

 

[Slow old poop]

After running Road America this past weekend, and meeting the competition, we have a better idea of what needs to be done for 2007.

First of all, the competition. S2000 Hondas will be in TTB, and these are wicked fast little cars. They used to be in TTC, and regularly beat the TTB times, so NASA is kicking them upstairs. On Saturday, I managed to beat the S2000 that won TTC and came in 2nd in TTB at the Nationals. I figure that he is the car to beat in TTB this year. I beat him on Saturday, but he changed his setup and stomped me good on Sunday, so we have some serious work to do.

First, tires. I've been running 235/40-17 Toyo Prox RA1s, which are a dang fine tire that wears like iron. I highly recommend them for DSMs, especially anyone on a tire budget. But it is not enough tire to run with cars on Hoosiers, such as the S2000.

I hope to pick up a set of used 255 Toyos, and use them for practice tires. I'll mount them on the 17x9 wheels I have now, and run the first two sessions of an event on them. I'll also buy a set of Cobra SVT wheels and a set of Hoosier 255s, and use them to set fast laps in the last two sessions of an event. With luck, both sets will last the entire season.

Next, brakes. We are having a torrid discussion about brakes in the thread about Road America, and it boils down to this: Stoptech rotors are not thick enough for AWD cars. They work fine on Greg's 2000 lb FWD, but crack on the heavier AWD cars (I've cracked four of them so far). In short, I have to find a thicker rotor that can take the abuse I dish out. Supercar Engineering is working on a solution. I'll keep you posted. I have plenty of brake--the Stoptechs definitely work--but they crack.

Chassis setup. My car works really well as it is, but every car can stand to be adjusted. First, I'll get it corner weighted. Next, I'll get a pro racer to drive it and tell me what needs to be adjusted (Greg? You plan to be in the Midwest anytime next spring?). The front tires were washing out in the Carousel at Road America when I really pushed it, but that's the only indication I have that something needs tuning. Photos show a little body lean in the front, too.

Serious lightening. We want to pull the dash and remove all the junk back there. Then, maybe drill a few holes here and there. The Archer Bros car doesn't have braces on the hood, so we'll take them out. The idea is to get 100+ lb of weight out of it (and me, too. I'm on a diet, trying to lose 30 lb. 10 down, 20 to go). If we get too light, we can always put weight back where we want it, like in the rear.

Fuel cell. I have a serious fuel starvation problem on long lefts. It seems like the cost of a fuel cell is about equal to a surge tank and a fuel pump, so we'll go with the fuel cell.

More Horsepower. I was shocked to see that I could stay ahead of a Mallet Vette (427 supercharged) on the straights at Road America! I outpulled M3s, Corvettes, M Coupes, and the S2000 on the straights. The AMS 2.3 stroker pulls like a frieght train, especially at the Big End. But we can always use more power. We have a problem getting above 20 psi boost, most likely because of the stock blowoff valve. We were running 20 psi with no knock on race gas, so the el-cheapo solution is to find the problem and crank the boost to 25 psi. The really expensive solution is a ball bearing turbo from AMS, which allegedly will get me into the 400+ hp range.

More gear. I was hitting 6500 rpm in 5th gear on the straights, so we are considering installing the "highway 5th gear" to get a little more top end. Especially since Mid Ohio, where the nationals are held, has that long straight.

Other than a few other demon tweaks and mods -- fix roll cage, install DSMLink, install Kirkey passenger seat, etc. -- that's about it. The car worked really well at Road America, and we are aiming for the National Championship in TTB next year.

If I can just figure out how to beat the S2000, that is. Now that he's in TTB, he may add a few mods, too.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

The front straight at Mid-O certainly doesn't seem as long as that at RA, but I could be wrong. I'm guessing you're talking about the front straight at RA? Although come to think of it, the downhill straight coming into turn 3 is pretty long as well.

 

[underradar92]

Maybe the last time Poop was on Mid Ohio, his car was slower, so it just seemed longer.

 

[my_precious]

me and kyle were talking about porsche brakes at the autox meet. I wonder if those have a thicker rotor than the stop techs? those big carbon rotors are like an inch thick (but probably $$$ maybe they have a non carbon version that is just as thick?)

 

[Slow old poop]

The front straight at Mid-O certainly doesn't seem as long as that at RA, but I could be wrong. I'm guessing you're talking about the front straight at RA? Although come to think of it, the downhill straight coming into turn 3 is pretty long as well.

Maybe the straights aren't as long as I remembered. It's been 30 years since I was there last. Looks like that back straight with the high speed turn might be a thriller.

Rich

 

[my_precious]

30 years?!

 

[Slow old poop]

30 years?!

35, actually.

My wife and I started out as SCCA timers and scorers at Mid-Ohio back in 19-ought-71 right after we got married. She was the only one in the timing tower who could time six cars on a Heuer split-action stopwatch. Best I could do was three cars at a time. We met Mark Donahue, Roger Penske, Paul Newman (sorry, P.L. Newman in his racing days) and many other luminaries in the days before they hid in motorhomes and enclaves.

Then they brought out electronic timing, which wasn't very challenging. So we quit and went Pro Rallying, ran the 1973 Press on Regardless, and competed for a couple more years afterward in performance rallies with a stock-engine Datsun 510. Best we did was 5th on the Sunriser 400 with that 90 hp motor. With another 100 hp "I coulda been a contendah." (You probably have no idea where that line came from, do you?)

Then babies came along, so I retired from motorsports until about six years ago, when the kids finally graduated from college. I bought a 3000GT VR4 and went HPDEing.

I may be an old poop, but I only have about six years of experience at this road racing stuff. Still, it's us old farts that you young guys have to watch out for. We'll kick your butts all over the track, gray hair or not. (Right, Greg?)

I suppose that was more than you wanted to know, eh?

*sigh* Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.

Rich

 

[mavisky]

Yea that little kink is where Joey Hand tried to become an astronaut in his BMW M3.

 

[Greg Collier]

Right!

 

[Slow old poop]

me and kyle were talking about porsche brakes at the autox meet. I wonder if those have a thicker rotor than the stop techs? those big carbon rotors are like an inch thick (but probably $$$ maybe they have a non carbon version that is just as thick?)

What 3000GT cars do sometimes is mount a Porsche Big Red caliper from a 996 over the stock 12 in. rotor. A couple of simple brackets will do it. The Big Reds work very well and are easy to mount. With even taller brackets, a 3000GT with Big Reds can accommodate up to a 13.5 in Coleman two-piece rotor (it's what I wound up doing on my VR4).

I have always wondered why that wouldn't work on a DSM. The bolt pattern is the same, so a 3000GT rotor ought to bolt up to a DSM hub. That means you could pick up a pair of used Big Reds and some used 2nd gen VR4 rotors, fab some brackets, and have a killer brake setup for way less than $1,000. I think Big Reds are far superior to Stoptechs, and you won't crack those stock VR4 rotors with our lightweight 3200 lb DSMs.

Rich

 

[Tevenor]

I will be installing my 2.4 and stripping the bejesus out of my car.

Ditto. Add in new set of rims and that's about right.

 

[silvah_gsx]

My wife and I started out as SCCA timers and scorers at Mid-Ohio back in 19-ought-71 right after we got married. She was the only one in the timing tower who could time six cars on a Heuer split-action stopwatch. Best I could do was three cars at a time.

I read mention of her a few years ago in Autoweek, an article about the then new Miata series and the history of spec racing
And the lady who used to run timing & scoring at the local-ish karting track knew of her...I just remember her talking about the woman who could do six cars on one watch.

Small world isn't it

 

[Greg Collier]

I'll also buy a set of Cobra SVT wheels and a set of Hoosier 255s, and use them to set fast laps in the last two sessions of an event. With luck, both sets will last the entire season.
Rich

Keep an eye on e-Bay for Hoosiers, there's always great deals. I've gotten at least ten sets of new tires for next to nothing....

Here's one of two, that's on there now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/P255...egoryZ107065QQihZ005QQitemZ150049145901QQrdZ1

 

[drivemusicnow]

What 3000GT cars do sometimes is mount a Porsche Big Red caliper from a 996 over the stock 12 in. rotor. A couple of simple brackets will do it. The Big Reds work very well and are easy to mount. With even taller brackets, a 3000GT with Big Reds can accommodate up to a 13.5 in Coleman two-piece rotor (it's what I wound up doing on my VR4).

I have always wondered why that wouldn't work on a DSM. The bolt pattern is the same, so a 3000GT rotor ought to bolt up to a DSM hub. That means you could pick up a pair of used Big Reds and some used 2nd gen VR4 rotors, fab some brackets, and have a killer brake setup for way less than $1,000. I think Big Reds are far superior to Stoptechs, and you won't crack those stock VR4 rotors with our lightweight 3200 lb DSMs.

Rich

I do know of someone who parted out their 1g road race car that fitted porsche calipers front and rear. I'll have to look him up and see if he has any information. IIRC they were Boxster S calipers, however I think the brackets maybe the same. 13" front, and 11.5" rear, and he said there were no issues with the MC or the Bias.

From what I hear the "big blacks" are the calipers to have, and can be found on some of the older 928s, as well as some of the newer AWD Turbo 911s. The "big reds" are a step down, however I'm sure either would work.

I have to wonder if they are actually better than the stop tech calipers. From my experience, rotor cracking is MUCH more likely to be a pad issue, or a rotor issue. What pads do you currently use, and have you ever check brake rotor/caliper temp using that paint?

 

[my_precious]

nostalgia is always good. Carol Shelby the chicken farmer is one of my heros and he isn't exactly "young". I rode in a lotus for the first time at Waterford hills and it was an old guy named Bob that took me out. I figured we'd do like he told me "slow and smooth and ease into it" but that definately was not the case. Obviously his slow and smooth and my slow and smooth are night and day. Afterwards I was told that he owns a big Ferrari Dealer in Dearborn and used to race for Jack Roush....so yeah, that was freakin awesome. He was probably in his 60s and had a beer gut and damn could he drive! He gives me hope that I'll be racing till I die.

 

[92awddsm]

With the 2006 season winding down, I figured I'd post a thread where we can all share our plans and projects for the 2007 season....

I'll start off:

Of course, all that requires some money - haven't quite figured out where it's going to come from yet with the baby on the way.


What are your plans this offseason?

Trust me when I say money isnt going to be the deciding factor of what you will be doing in the off season. The lack of spare time will be. You dont realize it yet but the baby is going to take most, or all of your spare time. On the good side, you probably wont even care once the baby is born. You will be too preoccupied to even think much about the car. When is the due date?

During the winter months, I will be trying to find time to get something done to my car. My son takes most of my spare time when Im not at work. If all goes well, I plan to get my new short block and tranny built. At the rate things have been going, that might take another year.

 

[Slow old poop]

I do know of someone who parted out their 1g road race car that fitted porsche calipers front and rear. I'll have to look him up and see if he has any information. IIRC they were Boxster S calipers, however I think the brackets maybe the same. 13" front, and 11.5" rear, and he said there were no issues with the MC or the Bias.
From what I hear the "big blacks" are the calipers to have, and can be found on some of the older 928s, as well as some of the newer AWD Turbo 911s. The "big reds" are a step down, however I'm sure either would work.
I have to wonder if they are actually better than the stop tech calipers. From my experience, rotor cracking is MUCH more likely to be a pad issue, or a rotor issue. What pads do you currently use, and have you ever check brake rotor/caliper temp using that paint?

We went through the black v. red discussion years ago, and the consensus was that reds were better. Maybe it was availablity, pad size, mounting ability, or something similar. Many BMWs run the reds and you hardly ever see blacks being used.

Yes, please follow up. I think reds would be a cheap, killer brake system for our cars. If anybody can do the conversion, it'd be Supercar Engineering. I am especially interested in the rear brake conversion.

I run Carbotech pads front and rear, on the advice of Supercar Engineering. My only problem so far has been pad knockback when the pads get worn down. As for rotors, Supercar Engineering pointed out somewhere above that the Stoptech rotors are too small for AWD cars.

Rich

 

[my_precious]

During the winter months, I will be trying to find time to get something done to my car. My son takes most of my spare time when Im not at work. If all goes well, I plan to get my new short block and tranny built. At the rate things have been going, that might take another year.

The key to finding spare time is getting your son involved in racing. I dont know how old he is but I know if I ever have a kid he's gonna come out drivign a shifter kart hahaha

 

[Slow old poop]

I read mention of her a few years ago in Autoweek, an article about the then new Miata series and the history of spec racing
And the lady who used to run timing & scoring at the local-ish karting track knew of her...I just remember her talking about the woman who could do six cars on one watch.

Small world isn't it

As much as I would like to think they were talking about my wife, Linda, I suspect the article was about Roger Penske's legendary chief timer lady, the only other timer I knew of that could do six cars on one watch. I doubt seriously if Autoweek would take notice of a volunteer timer. My wife was just a legend among a small group of timers and scorers who worked MidOhio, Nelson's Ledges and IRP in the 1970s.

As long as we are on the subject, she was also such a good Pro Rally navigator, she was offered a pro ride with the Cooper Tire team. (Nobody ever offered me a pro ride...grrrrr.) She was not afraid of anything (except Forest Road 5), never got nervous, never blew a timing function, let me put food money into the rally car, loved to compete, could call turns with accuracy, and was willing to pee in the snow at the side of the road when necessary.

We ran a 450 mile rally one night and she got so sick from the flu that we had to carry her into the hotel at the end because she couldn't walk on her own. I suggested that we retire from the rally in the middle of the night, but she wanted to press on.

On the 1973 Press On Regardless WRC rally, she was the highest finishing America woman.

I wish she'd come to the track with me, but she is no spectator. She'll compete or work, but not spectate. Maybe I can convince her to take her Chrysler 300C Hemi AWD out for an HPDE one of these days.

I have a very cool wife.

Rich

 

[92awddsm]

The key to finding spare time is getting your son involved in racing. I dont know how old he is but I know if I ever have a kid he's gonna come out drivign a shifter kart hahaha

Kind of hard to get a 10 month old involved in racing. Later when he is old enough, Im sure he will want to help daddy. But until then, he just wants daddy to be around all the time. If Im not home by his dinner time, he is fussy and wont eat. He also needs daddy to be home before he will go to sleep. Therefore, I have no spare time to work on a dsm in the afternoons. Speaking of which, I had to leave work early yesterday and stay home today because he is sick. This is what I meant about having very limited spare time with an infant/toddler.

 

[Greg Collier]

Kind of hard to get a 10 month old involved in racing. Later when he is old enough, Im sure he will want to help daddy. But until then, he just wants daddy to be around all the time. If Im not home by his dinner time, he is fussy and wont eat. He also needs daddy to be home before he will go to sleep. Therefore, I have no spare time to work on a dsm in the afternoons. Speaking of which, I had to leave work early yesterday and stay home today because he is sick. This is what I meant about having very limited spare time with an infant/toddler.

Good job! Your son is the most important thing!

 

[1LE]

Hmmm, for 2007, I think I'll change the oil and filter I *may* even put new spark plugs in! Last year was a bank account emptying adventure that I don't care to repeat again so soon!

The only thing on my list is to try to get a decent skidplate worked up for the car. Been meaning to do that the last couple of years, but never got around to it. Maybe this year...

Also, many pages back I saw a suggestion of Carbotech Panther brake pads. Just wanted to add a little input. As long as you aren't making too much more power than stock, they may be a good choice. I personally had problems with them and found that Porterfield R4-E pads were able to handle the heat a lot better, and are also perfectly streetable year round (and seem to eat rotors at about the same rate as the Carbotechs). Downside is that the "E" compound pads get very noisy if you get lots of dirt in them and are making slow speed stops.

 

[lethal_vr4]

We went through the black v. red discussion years ago, and the consensus was that reds were better. Maybe it was availablity, pad size, mounting ability, or something similar.

The "Big Blacks" on the older 928's are a trailing edge caliper. Meaning the caliper is inborad of the hub. "Big Reds" are leading edge, like OEM DSM calipers. Big Blacks are indeed better calipers, but unless you can mount them inboard, the bleeders will point down not up. Switching the calipes to the "wrong" sides and you will have the smaller brake piston on the wrong side.

The stoptech's are stiffer due the the added bridge at the mouth of the caliper, then the brembos, but it makes quick change of pads a pain.

If I were you Rich I would get a spacer made for your stoptechs to allow a bigger rotor, and then run a rotor similar to mine. You might have to modify your bridge as well.

Oh and you need a rear brake kit. It will shave a little on lap time without incuring "HP" points. Supercar Engineering should have a Stoptech kit for you.

 

[eclipse2via]

"I coulda been a contendah." (You probably have no idea where that line came from, do you?)

*sigh* Nostalgia just isn't what it used to be.

Rich

On the Waterfront

Marlon Brando as Terry Malloy