ECMlink 1g Negative Timing and Knock

[Lolmooses]

1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks?
Boost leak tested 5psi above your max boost with no leaks?

No leaks

2). Verified mechanical timing?
Spot on

3). Verified base timing?
5* BTDC with a timing light

4). Ignition system
COP or Stock Coil: Stock
Wire brand and Age: NGK 1 year old
Spark Plug brand, type and Gap: NGK BPR7ES 0.28"

5). Motor health (Compression Test)
Cylinder 1:175
Cylinder 2:175
Cylinder 3:175
Cylinder 4:170

6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments?
Idle Switch:Yes
Throttle Cable:Yes
TPS:0.63v
BISS:Yes

7). Compression ratio
7.8:1
8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring?
No
9). Any DTC/CEL codes?
No
10). Electrical system
Car off (not running):12.6v
Car running:13.5v-14.5v

11). Base fuel pressure and injector values
Base Fuel Pressure:37 PSI
Injector Size (cc/min):780 PTE

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor
Sensor Brand:Innovate MTX-L
Calibration Date: Less than a month ago

13). Type of fuel
Type:91
Percent of Ethanol: 10%

14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos?
Yes

I can't run any positive timing whatsoever without getting knock. I uploaded two different pulls just to give you guys some data. Adding fuel seems to make no difference when adding timing. What could I do to get some positive timing without knock outside of higher octane fuel?I have an intercooler coming to address my IATs with the stock one. I also cannot get my 14b to go under 20 psi once it hits around 5000 RPM, so lowering boost is not really something that has helped. I'm fairly new to all this still, so I'm open to any suggestions.

 

[OGDSM1989]

Just out of curiosity have you looked at your knock sensor, I had case where I was seeing knock ( phantom knock ) because the OEM knock was just chewed up and spit out , wiring was hard and cracking. I changed that stuff and lost quite a few counts on knock all across the rpm range ..... the intercooler will help with the IAT you could add a washer solvent sprayer like the EVOs have ..... If you have a manual boost controller have you tried just removing the boost controller ( line from source to wastegate ) , check your wastegate via a air compressor ) Lastly how many miles are on this motor , is it possible that the motor is just worn out and used up ......

 

[bastarddsm]

Go get a couple gallons of 110 or something and put that in with a really low tank. If the knock goes away it's phantom.

When you say positive timing do you mean like 1*btdc, or like adding 1* to the stock tables?

 

[Lolmooses]

Just out of curiosity have you looked at your knock sensor, I had case where I was seeing knock ( phantom knock ) because the OEM knock was just chewed up and spit out , wiring was hard and cracking. I changed that stuff and lost quite a few counts on knock all across the rpm range ..... the intercooler will help with the IAT you could add a washer solvent sprayer like the EVOs have ..... If you have a manual boost controller have you tried just removing the boost controller ( line from source to wastegate ) , check your wastegate via a air compressor ) Lastly how many miles are on this motor , is it possible that the motor is just worn out and used up ......

Knock sensor is brand new OEM and torqued properly, so that rules that out. Running on wastegate pressure itll boost 10 PSI until about 3500-4000 and slowly climb to 21 psi by 5500. Tested the actuator and it opens fully at 15 psi. I have an EVO III waiting to go on, but I want that intercooler installed first. Mileage on the motor is a good question as I doubt this is the original motor, but assuming it is, about 169k.

Go get a couple gallons of 110 or something and put that in with a really low tank. If the knock goes away it's phantom.

When you say positive timing do you mean like 1*btdc, or like adding 1* to the stock tables?

I don't have access to any unleaded race gas around here unforunately. I'll try getting some 93 and see if it helps. By positive timing I mean running anything above -1 timing under full load and peak boost.

 

[OGDSM1989]

+1 the race fuel ..I doubt 93 will do it but it may help little.

IMO just my opinion 169k is really time for a freshen up at least while compression is alright its a little low ( 180 is about as low as I like to see ) if its phantom knock it could still be in the wiring .... other then the race fuel to check if its phantom knock , this maybe the timing your stuck with. it could be due to the age of the motor maybe something else but I am guessing its the age of the motor.... has timing belt and components ever been changed ( water pump, oil pump , tensioners and pulley ) .....

 

[Lolmooses]

Timing belt and all related parts and pieces are brand new OEM and Gates parts. I don't really have anywhere to pull the engine apart and leave the car sitting around so I can't do that just yet. I did notice the pistons had A LOT of thick carbon. I can only imagine thats creating hot spots for the crappy 91 we have here.

 

[curt-s]

+1 the race fuel ..I doubt 93 will do it but it may help little.

IMO just my opinion 169k is really time for a freshen up at least while compression is alright its a little low ( 180 is about as low as I like to see ) if its phantom knock it could still be in the wiring .... other then the race fuel to check if its phantom knock , this maybe the timing your stuck with. it could be due to the age of the motor maybe something else but I am guessing its the age of the motor.... has timing belt and components ever been changed ( water pump, oil pump , tensioners and pulley ) .....

OP, Is this a 6 bolt turbo block with stock turbo pistons and rods (7.8:1)? Profile leads us to believe so.
If so, I'd be scratching my head as 175 far exceeds factory spec, nevermind "as low as" 180 as above (which even exceeds 2G T stock 8.5:1 @ 178psi std compression) Even if you've decked the head and block, that's a big jump up even if you truly are you're getting 100% efficiency out of the compression with zero leak past rings.

 

[Lolmooses]

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I got those results and I was using a quality tester as well. The compression test was done correctly as well. My only guess is I have 2g pistons on 1g rods because I know for sure its a 6 bolt or I have excessive carbon causing an increase in compression.

 

[tmoney20g]

Doesn't look like anyone said it, but you stated a 0.28" gap for the spark plugs. factory is .028", so you're either huge, or just missed a decimal place. re-gap them to .024" or even smaller like .022 or .020 and see what happens.

also, holy cow your VE table, I limit any tuning I do to a max integer of 105, then globally scale it back to 100. I don't know the ecu's limits, but over 110 VE is just a no-no, and you have a bunch of 118's in there.

also2, whether you have them or not, I "enable factory settings" on all my tunes for EGR and FPS, just so the ecu is happy. and if you don't have EGR, uncheck that in the DTC tab.

also3, on the ecu inputs tab, I believe you should check "lock intake temp and baro" since you're SD.

 

[Lolmooses]

Im slowly working the ve table down to reasonable numbers. I tried following http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/setting-up-ve-table.487628/#post-153471531 in order to scale it down,but it made it run too lean. Now I'm adding global fuel, 3rd gear pull and adjusting the ve table down a couple points each pull until I get it close to 100. Wouldn't locking the intake temp and baro just make the ecu think IAT's and the MAP are stuck at one value?