F5M33 rebuild. Does this look right to you?

[Dustin Wolfe]

Hello. I've been a long time lurker. Never really posted I just mainly search the forums. In this case though I think I need an expert opinion.

I'm rebuilding my trans as the title states (as much as that's possible with the parts availability). Upon taking the cases apart I found something that does not look correct to me. Now, it came apart this was so I could be wrong but there is a gear shaped plate on the primary shaft that does not look to match the gear it is on. Hopefully these pictures are clear enough but I'll get more if it isn't clear. That plate seems to have a different tooth count than the gear below it.

Is this the way it is supposed to be? It's a 1990 F5M33. I believe it's the original trans but it had been apart at some point. I do not know if anything has been changed previously.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[pauleyman]

That's called a sub gear. Looks normal to me.

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

Ok rad. I'll take your word for it. It just seems strange it wouldn't match the gear it's attached to. It doesn't seem to be causing damage but it did leave a small groove on the gears it trys to mesh with. Do you by chance know why it has one less tooth? It seems like it would make it want to slip but I guess I don't really know the intricacies of it's operation. Thanks for answering my question.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

I also made a mistake. It's not the primary shaft. It's the input shaft. I'm guessing you knew that though.

 

[pauleyman]

Some gears are grooved for identification. I don't think the sub gear did that. Show us if you're concerned

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

It's not much of a groove but it does prevent the gear from meshing completely. It's more of a witness mark than a groove. It also has the i.d. marks you're talking about. The "damage" is right below the i.d. marks. Damage being a relative term.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

I've seen a lot of the advice you've given and I feel pretty confident that you know what you are talking about. If you say it's good, I think I can trust that.

 

[pauleyman]

Ok that's a new one. You can see the factory hash marks on the other gear but the lines you speak of do appear to be made by the sub gear. I've not see that that I can recall on any fwd or awd I've taken apart. Someone else will have to chime in.

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

Would anybody by chance know how many teeth should be on that gear? I think it's 4th right? That explains why I couldn't find any information on why it's different. My gear has 27 teeth and the sub gear has 26. Man that's borderline terrifying I'm going to have to try to find parts. I'd be shocked if I'm able to find that piece. Honestly I'd have expected the sub gear to be more torn up though if it's preventing the gears from meshing. I've put at least 100 k on the trans the way it is.

I should ask, is this in an area where it will receive some views or would you recommend me posting it to a different area?

 

[donniekak]

The sub gear reduces gear noise and vibration. It’s a basically a rotational damper. The gear it’s on can’t really chatter back and forth.

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

Yes but is it supposed to match the gear it is attached to or is it for some reason supposed to have 1 less tooth?
Edit: Actually after thinking about you saying that I'm starting to think that having 1 less tooth may be how it controls vibration. Thanks for helping me out fellas.

 

[pauleyman]

Yes but is it supposed to match the gear it is attached to or is it for some reason supposed to have 1 less tooth?
Edit: Actually after thinking about you saying that I'm starting to think that having 1 less tooth may be how it controls vibration. Thanks for helping me out fellas.

Yes it has less teeth by design. Its not actually attached to the gear. It just sits on top of it.

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

Ok I have one more question if you all don't mind. Do you know where this bolt goes? It looks like it was from the inside but I can't find anywhere it could thread into. It could be from the bearing splitter set or something but it's covered in gear oil so it really seems like it is part of the trans

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[pauleyman]

I don't recognize it

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

I'm pretty sure that same bolt got me the last time I had a project torn apart on my weld table. Thanks again for your help. I can put my car back together again now. I appreciate it big time

 

[pauleyman]

I'll give you one big gotcha. Pay attention to the orientation of the reverse sprocket shaft. Don't get it somewhat close to right before cases go together and you'll be taking case apart again. Thats why that bolt is tapered also

 

[luv2rallye]

Ok I have one more question if you all don't mind. Do you know where this bolt goes? It looks like it was from the inside but I can't find anywhere it could thread into. It could be from the bearing splitter set or something but it's covered in gear oil so it really seems like it is part of the trans

Internal tranny bolts usually don't have a phillips screwdriver slot so possibly a hardware store bought bolt to replace something like a tranny filler or drain bolt whose head is always getting rounded? Or bell housing cover bolt? I'm just guessing looking at my diagrams, pics, and remembering my rebuild. What is it's size, length, and thread pitch?

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

It's 6mm x 1.25 pitch and about 13mm long. While I'm here, is there supposed to be a snap ring here? I feel like I remember removing one here but I can't seem to find it. Might be time to clean up a bit.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[twicks69]

It's 6mm x 1.25 pitch and about 13mm long. While I'm here, is there supposed to be a snap ring here? I feel like I remember removing one here but I can't seem to find it. Might be time to clean up a bit.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Remove the subgear from 4th after you press apart the gearset and thoroughly clean and debur/detail the components, including reshaping the intermediate shaft 4th gear teeth to take the dent out of it. That happens from debris in the transmission jamming itself between the 4th gear and subgear. You should know by now, but there is a snap ring under 5th needle bearing sleeve that needs removal first before pressing off the rest of the 3rd/4th gearset. When you clean and detail the gears and then reinstall the subgear, wave spring and snapring it will be smoother turning but still with resistance.

As for missing a snapring, the only ones in the F5M33 trans are on the bottom of the intermediate shaft at the end towards 1st gear side, and then the input shaft has a snapring after the outer shaft bearing before installation of the 5th gear needle bearing sleeve.

 

[luv2rallye]

It's 6mm x 1.25 pitch and about 13mm long.

Some possibilities (for holding): reverse brake cone, stopper bracket, reverse shift lever assembly, bearing retainer, one of the bell housing cover bolts (or a hardware store replacement - thus the phillips screwdriver slotted head)? I don't have the specs for all of these but they are all small like that as I remember.

 

[twicks69]

That little bolt he was showing is for nothing internal on the transmission.

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

Right on I really appreciate the responses. That answers my question. I thought there was a snap ring there somewhere. Now that you say it though I definitely remember it being under that sleeve. Again, thanks.

 

[Dustin Wolfe]

I just got it back together and drove it. Seems pretty good. Thanks again. I found a few things that might be useful to others. I found you can't really get radiator bushings anymore. If you cut most of the rubber out of the stock mounts, a pair of end link bushings for a 88-98 Silverado slip right in. You all probably have a better solution but if not it worked well. I had a set in my toolbox. Was gonna machine down some polyurethane blanks I got from energy suspension but I ran across those before I got to it. The ones I used are also energy suspension but I'd assume they're the same dimensions (could be wrong). The I.d. is perfect for the koyo and mishimoto radiators.