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evo3 16g e85 ?s

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turbo4awd

turbo4awd

10+ Year Contributor
206
1
Dec 19, 2008
Carlisle, Pennsylvania
I was wandering if my 1000cc precision injectors can handle high boost on e85
Currently im spiking 35 to 38lbs holding around 28 lbs. I was wanting to switch to e85to see if I can squeeze some more power out of my setup.
Also is there any setting I need to change in dsm link to run e85.
I know I need to retune.
Im not positive but im thinking I need to recalibrate my wideband?
 
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Be advised the target boost level for that turbo is 18-23psi; you're going to absolutely murder the turbo's thrust hardware with a 35-38psi spike. Consider dropping the boost to the 25-28psi range, or upgrading the turbo to something designed to handle 35-38psi.
 
I thought the guys running in low 11s & high 10s were running huge spikes. I really appreciate the concern I will try lowering it down some. Justin do you have any knowledge of the ? About if ill how enough fuel for that turbo on e85.
 
What's the point/advantage of this huge boost spike? I run 30 on the low end and hold at least 28 on my 16G with a Holset WGA. When I had the 16G on my 5spd car I broke 3 transmissions -- I'll never have a turbo that hits that hard on anything but an auto transmission again.

Up-down play is still probably about the same as it was in 2005, but it didn't take long at all for mine to get A LOT of in-out play.
 
LandSpeed-DSM said:
Crazy mid-range torque from a 35+ psi spike on a E3-16G, but thats way off the map in terms of shaft speed and efficiency.
Click to expand...

I was at around 26-28 falling to 22 when I did 414hp/459 torque. Not good at all on the drivetrain. It's was almost violent when it hit boost in 2nd gear. Very fun to drive, but not fun to keep working on / spending money replacing broken stuff. I never broke anything at the drag strip though, cause you don't use that low-end torque since you're never at a low RPM -- another reason the huge boost spike is not going to do you much good for making your car fast.
 
turbo4awd said:
I thought the guys running in low 11s & high 10s were running huge spikes.
Click to expand...
One of the fastest Evo III 16G's out there was with Curt Brown's old black 1G; the wastegate actuator was shimmed to the point where it barely opened if it even opened at all. It spiked to 27psi then settled to 24-25psi, and netted a 10.33 with a best MPH of 134.

More boost isn't the answer to making power with an Evo III. All you're doing is overheating the air charge until it gets to the point where your intercooler can't cool it any more, so you end up with insane knock. You then respond by adding more fuel and less timing to get rid of the knock when it reality you were probably going faster with less boost and a more aggressive tune.

At 35psi with a 16G the shaft speeds have to be over 200,000 rpms; so a broken shaft is in your future if you don't back the boost off a bit. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already, actually.
 
Ill def back boost off to at least 28 to 30 spike. But are 100cc injectors enough for e85 with this turbo.
I did trash a tranny and a 3 bolt rear and countless axles car nowhas shep stage 4 and a 4 bolt rear.
 
I would go with FIC 1550 injectors with E85 and a nice intake pump and maybe a 044 inline as you need a ton of fuel going to the motor on E85.
 
TSIfreek said:
I would go with FIC 1550 injectors with E85 and a nice intake pump and maybe a 044 inline as you need a ton of fuel going to the motor on E85.
Click to expand...

1550's on an evo 3 16g for e85 is overkill. I was in between turbos so I put an evo 3 on to hold me over and my IDC's never got over high 40's percentage wise. Also, I was using a rewired Wally 255HP pump. You don't need anything fancy.

Like Jus said above, you are going to make more power at 23psi with a good tune than 30psi. Don't run crazy high boost on that thing unles you are going for a track record or something and don't give a crap about breaking your turbo.

You need about 26% more fuel with e85 than with 93. Not sure how DSMLink works but in my tuning program I just took my 1550's and entered them as 1105's. Haven't had a problem yet. I alwas run my wideband on a gas scale and target 12.05:1 in boost and 15:1 cruising/idle.

Not trying to start a war about AFR's and best way to compensate for switching to e85 or any of that. Just putting in some info from my experience.
 
Kapok6 said:
1550's on an evo 3 16g for e85 is overkill. I was in between turbos so I put an evo 3 on to hold me over and my IDC's never got over high 40's percentage wise. Also, I was using a rewired Wally 255HP pump. You don't need anything fancy.

Like Jus said above, you are going to make more power at 23psi with a good tune than 30psi. Don't run crazy high boost on that thing unles you are going for a track record or something and don't give a crap about breaking your turbo.

You need about 26% more fuel with e85 than with 93. Not sure how DSMLink works but in my tuning program I just took my 1550's and entered them as 1105's. Haven't had a problem yet. I alwas run my wideband on a gas scale and target 12.05:1 in boost and 15:1 cruising/idle.

Not trying to start a war about AFR's and best way to compensate for switching to e85 or any of that. Just putting in some info from my experience.
Click to expand...

What HP level and max boost were you at? On my 880s on E85 I cant go above 19-20 psi. Over kill is fine for me as I will be running in the 30 psi range next year as im building my car for dsm stock appearing class for the shootout . I just dont want to order a set of injectors and have them be to small.
 
TSIfreek said:
What HP level and max boost were you at? On my 880s on E85 I cant go above 19-20 psi. Over kill is fine for me as I will be running in the 30 psi range next year as im building my car for dsm stock appearing class for the shootout . I just dont want to order a set of injectors and have them be to small.
Click to expand...

I've run 30+ psi with a 20g and 850's on e85. Jrohner made the numbers in his sig with 750's and e85.

The norm for e85 is 500 whp on 1000's maxed out.
 
1000cc injectors will support anything a 16g can throw at the engine in terms of airflow, if you start seeing high IDC's (90%+) then turn up the base fuel pressure a few psi and stretch them to get IDC's down.

I didn't even know a 16g could get to 35psi before redline, like Jus already said, a local had his wastegate flapper welded shut and was only building 31psi... OMG

:dsm:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
donniekak said:
I've run 30+ psi with a 20g and 850's on e85. Jrohner made the numbers in his sig with 750's and e85.

The norm for e85 is 500 whp on 1000's maxed out.
Click to expand...

Interesting there must be something going on with my injectors then. I have cleaned the black goo from them once but that did not hinder performance. I have also heard others using 1200s and not having a problem even at high boost. Good information to know! :thumb:
 
TSIfreek said:
Interesting there must be something going on with my injectors then. I have cleaned the black goo from them once but that did not hinder performance. I have also heard others using 1200s and not having a problem even at high boost. Good information to know! :thumb:
Click to expand...

What is your base fuel pressure, and is your pump hotwired with thick wire?
 
donniekak said:
What is your base fuel pressure, and is your pump hotwired with thick wire?
Click to expand...

FP is right around 40 and it does have a rewire. I did some changes to the fuel system since then DW pump and -6 line to the rail. I really just need bigger injectors.
I dont drive my 1g on the street anymore that much as im turning it more into a race car.
 
TSIfreek said:
FP is right around 40 and it does have a rewire. I did some changes to the fuel system since then DW pump and -6 line to the rail. I really just need bigger injectors.
I dont drive my 1g on the street anymore that much as im turning it more into a race car.
Click to expand...

Another piece of advice, you said you ran new line from tank to rail...make sure its e85 compatible. I made the mistake of using jegs regular ss line and within a few days e85 had started eating away the line and clogging the filter. You need teflon or ptfe line. That or utilize the Oem line. I have a friend running the stock line for over yrs with e85 on a holset and not had any issues the Oem line can flow enough fuel for 500hp+ and its solid metal for 95% of it so e85 isn't going to eat it away.
 
A random piece of info. I ran 950's on e85, with my e16g at around 28 psi. I saw duty cycles of around 90 and that was on a stock fpr and only a walbro 255 in the tank.
 
Thanks alot guys most all nfo here was helpful and from the looks off it more than 1person benifitted from this thread.
Im going to try to get my 1000cc injectors in today if I can find the time. I have 3 e85 stations within 5 miles of me.
I ran the car almost completly out of gas so I could switch over. So looks like ill need to go fill a gas can with e85 then k can drive it to the station.
 
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