HORRIBLE grinding/knocking/crashing sound when cranking

[BLOHS7844]

I just had some machining done to my head (exhaust stud) and replaced my head gasket, did the timing, and all of that. It was my first time doing any of that though.
I went to start it up and it was making some of the worst noises imaginable. Grinding like gears grinding. It was in neutral so not the trans. But could it be the starter? I didn't even touch that.

It made a terrible crashing noise after a couple seconds and my first thought was a bent valve. The timing belt is still tight. When I did the timing I made sure the dowel pins were facing up, cams aligned, and the crank in the right spot. (no balance shafts) The noise was kinda like something breaking. Somewhat in a way like glass breaking? The problem got worse each time I tryed cranking it. I'm really afraid to try again

I took the spark plugs out and valve cover off for a quick visual inspection and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. cylinder 2 had some smoke coming out initally when I took the spark plugs out. I noticed it like 2 minutes later too. It smelled more like gas than the other cylinders. All the spark plugs smelled like gas like I would expect.

I'm 90% sure I got the spark plug wires in all the right places. What do you think?

 

[turboglenn]

Are the cams and crank pulley still lining up?? would be a bi*** if you didn't tighten timing belt and everything jumped (or didn't pull tensioner pin and same result)

i'd bet loose starter it's a nasty sound and will clunk and grind something fierce

 

[BLOHS7844]

Im not doubting you but I'm curious because I never once touched the starter or any of its wires

 

[nasty_4g63]

Mine did that because my tranny bolts rattled out and my tranny pulled my stayer in to my fly wheel. I doubt that is your problem but it is good to check.

 

[BLOHS7844]

I removed the motor mount on the timing belt side for a while to do the timing. Thinking about it there were times that no jack was under the oil pan...

 

[turboglenn]

i had a starter vibrate loose almost a year after the last time i touched it once.. other than that, line up the cams with dowels up, marks facing each toher and see where the crank pulley notch is on the timing cover (should be zero) if its not really damn close or on zero you jumped time bud

 

[BLOHS7844]

how many degrees off before theres an issue with valves?

The timing belt was plenty tight. And I rotated the crank plenty of times before I tried starting it so the timing wasn't off before and I really don't think it jumped a tooth

 

[turboglenn]

well put it this way, a cam gear can be off a tooth and be ok... the crank can sometimes be off a tooth and be ok, but after that and if there's no other clanking/grinding you farked your valves

BETTER YET..pullthe valve cover and look at each pair of valves and lifters, if there's pairs (meaning 2 intake or exhaust on same cylinder) that the lifters are extendeddifferently or the valves aren't sitting ar the same place whenthe cam's not pushing them, then you need to rebiuld the head

 

[BLOHS7844]

I will have to do that in the morning. I just lined up the marks and they are good. The crank rotates fully (w/o spark plugs) like it should if that makes a difference

 

[jimbob_843]

Did you make sure your valve stems were propperly locked with the locking cups? Maybe one bounced off and bent. Or worse your timing was off and ruined the head.

 

[NHerron]

Pull the fill plug on the transmission and make sure you have fluid in there.

It WILL make horrible screeching sounds, much worse than a slipping belt, even in neutral gear at low RPM's.

...Engine oil up to level too right?

 

[BLOHS7844]

Its not a consistent noise. Not like a screaching and the timing marks are still good.

I never drained the tranny fluid either

 

[rlacasse1]

Was your car working correctly before you changed the head gasket and did the timing?

If it was, then I would look specifically at things that you touched.

The chances of something else falling apart right at the same time you took your head off is too much of a coincidence.

And is this happening while trying to start the car? Or is happening while the car is running, if you ever got it running?

 

[turboglenn]

does it start? igues that was never asked

 

[BLOHS7844]

Car was running just fine. Never did get it started here. One thing to note it has like pretty much no gas. The gas light is on and I had to drain the gas that was in the fuel rail to take it off. Maybe its like fuel cut? Doesn't explain the grinding though.

Things I removed: Turbo, down pipe, both manifolds, throttle body, some intake, fuel rail, injectors, coil pack, crank pulley and associated belts, timing belt (didn't change or remove any other timing components) head, cams, lifters/rockers, driver motor mount, pretty much all coolant parts (except water pump).

Ported turbo and o2 but that would have anything to do with this noise

 

[rlacasse1]

Can you get a video of it?

And since you say the car was fine, I would be looking at things you touched first.

And I think the possibility of it being valves having contacted the pistons is the "most likely" here. Anyways, that's what it sounds like to me.

Another thing, when you crank it, does it crank smoothly other than the noise? I ask because I've seen cars with crap batteries make a lot of noise as the starter gear comes in contact and breaks contact with the flywheel. It happens cause the battery just doesn't have the balls to crank the cars. It's happened on occasion, but pretty rare.

 

[Calan]

It made a terrible crashing noise after a couple seconds and my first thought was a bent valve. ...The problem got worse each time I tryed cranking it. I'm really afraid to try again

My question is... why the hell did you keep cranking on it after the very first "terrible crashing noise"?

Have you done a leak down test to see if you bent the valves somehow? Have you tried turning the motor over by hand and carefully listening/feeling for interference in the cylinders? How about pulling the valve cover and looking for popped rockers or other valve train damage?

It probably wouldn't hurt to pull the flywheel inspection plate and check the flywheel. Look for ground/shiny teeth, looseness, oil, etc.

 

[BLOHS7844]

Calan... I took off the valve cover for a visual inspection and nothing out of the usual there. Turned the motor by hand and it is also normal.

Another thing to note is I had the lower timing cover on it without the other 2 for a while because I lost my middle and top cover somehow. Maybe something fell in there? I could see that maybe causing a grinding noise and possibly a knocking.

But I really don't think a valve hit a piston. Timing marks are about 5 degrees off but that was more than likely from the installation. Not enough to cause it to hit a piston.

My battery is also questionable but not really too bad

 

[NHerron]

You said head work? Were the lifters bled down before installation?

 

[BLOHS7844]

Should have mentioned that yes they were bled

 

[Calan]

Timing marks are about 5 degrees off but that was more than likely from the installation. Not enough to cause it to hit a piston.

Huh?

 

[BLOHS7844]

Theres dots every little bit on the crankshaft pulley. One of those lines up with the 5 btdc mark on the cover. I assumed that was a timing mark. I used the mark on the sprocket to line it up when doing the timing though. And it looked like a very small difference between 5 degrees and 0 degrees and I took that as being within normal error for the installation. Would 5 degrees off make it hit the piston?

Reading what I just wrote actually sounds horrible... way to much to drink tonight and might have messed my engine up real good...

 

[Calan]

...it looked like a very small difference between 5 degrees and 0 degrees and I took that as being within normal error for the installation. Would 5 degrees off make it hit the piston?

It shouldn't be off at all. There is a single notch on the harmonic balancer that lines up with the 0* mark on the plastic timing cover. When those are lined up, the notch in the crank plate (behind the crank sprocket) should be lined up with the "arrow" that is cast into the aluminum front cover.

 

[rlacasse1]

You are suppose to line up the mark on the sprocket with the mark on the engine, not on the timing cover.

 

[BLOHS7844]

I have the timing cover on it right now so I can't see the front cover. Should I remove the pulleys and the timing cover?

And when doing the timing I didn't use the cover