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2G Car running extremely rich to the point it cant idle

Posted by HolsetGST, Jan 11, 2019 at 7:53 PM

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  1. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

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    Wallingford, Connecticut
    post up a photo of the injectors. never tried running HiZ injectors witout the delete plug installed. Will it even run without that?
     

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  2. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

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    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    Tuner will be back today, i'll provide him with all the info you guys have given me, The car currently has a brand new air filter, the tuner suggested using NGK BR8ES gapped at 22 and Taylor 77232 wires, he swears by them i've put faith in him cause he's tuned a bunch of evos here and a couple 1000+ horsepower cars as well
     
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  3. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

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    Orlando, Florida
    I took a picture of the injector it looks like the blue ID 1000CC injector but we'll still try pulling the fuel, also i took a picture of the plug from the resistor box, are these the wires that needed to be soldered together or have the resistor box delete plug attached?
     

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  4. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

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    Orlando, Florida
    The air filter is completely fine, i took a picture of the injector still on the rail, seems to be ID 1000cc blue injectors, they are high impedance as well, i took a photo of the plug from the resistor box, is this the one that needs to be soldered together or with an resistor delete plug?thank you 20190112_073613.jpg
     

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  5. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

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    Cleveland, Ohio
    That looks like it yes. Should have 5 wires. You have the option of removing the plug from the box itself and soldering those wires together to make your own delete plug or you could simply modify the harness itself. Ideally, I'd buy a plug from one of the vendors. It's realtively cheap and you aren't forced to commit to high z injectors permanently. Of course you can always change the wiring back but why hack it up? Just my opinion.

    Also, see the post below. Appears that the car will need the plug or soldered to run. You cannot simply unplug it.

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/hi...tor-pack-delete-wiring.464250/#post-153321917
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 8:41 AM
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    13.06 @ 105.75 MPH
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  6. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Houston, Texas
    I'm confused as to why the delete plug wasn't on the car in the first place? Maybe ask the previous owner if he/she has it with them? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
     
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT30   manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    16g   manual
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  7. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Why dont we first do a resistance check on all of those injectors? lets make sure they are name brand injectors and not junk from China, that blue area is just the injector adapters, those could be any injector in there. Maybe pull them and try to blow air through them with an air compressor to make sure one or more arent leaking straight through. I would start by pulling them and finding out exactly what you have in there, even if you get it to run by messing around with it, you still want to know for sure the brand and part number and make sure they have the right resistance and that they are clean and leak free. The car wont start with no injector resistor plugged in or a resistor delete plugged in, its an incomplete circuit so forget that, it needs a delete plug or the resistor plugged in.
     
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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  8. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    Sonora Mexico, Arizona
    That is I was exactly wondering that how the car was running with the previous owner with this setup. Maybe the previous owner changed something before sold the car to the OP. Otherwise doesn't make sense that still has the resistor pack connected with those injectors.
     
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   automatic
    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    GT40   manual
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  9. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

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    Wallingford, Connecticut
    A pic of the whole injector. That pic is nearly useless. Looks like youve found the issue anyway
     
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  10. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

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    Wallingford, Connecticut
    Ive seen way worse than this.....Im sure you have too. Good sense doesnt come standard for everyone.

    (I say this referring to whoever passed the car off this way)
     
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  11. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Sir, are you insinuating that a "just needs a tune" car doesn't have the parts previous said it has? Blasphemy.
     
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT30   manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    16g   manual
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    steve likes this.
  12. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

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    Orlando, Florida
    Thanks for all the info and help guys, tuner still wasn't able to get the car running right even after the resistor plug delete, at this point I'm not sure what to do,same issues again car runs pig rich 9 to 10s after startup and won't run unless foot is on the gas, I have evoscan software would a log help to try and find this gremlin? Car was a project from original owner who had an evo8 he simply put bought the car stock put on all the mods listed and never got to finishing it, this is my first dsm and I'm adamant in finding a solution to get this car figured out,I'll have to pull out the injectors and inspect them as previous poster said I work on an oil rig so I'll be gone the next couple days until I can do that.
     
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  13. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

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    Cleveland, Ohio
    I think physically verifying the injectors and making sure the ecu is calibrated for those injectors is the only next step that makes sense at this point. Everything else is guessing and trusting the previous owner. Luckily removing injectors on these cars is pretty easy and accessible. Let us know what you find.
     
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    13.06 @ 105.75 MPH
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   manual
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  14. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    I'm not familiar with the black box ecu but it's likely that your ecu is not configured for 1000cc injectors.
     
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT30   manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    16g   manual
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  15. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

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    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    The blackbox h8 ecu is the 98/99 gst/gsx ecu my car is a 97 gst I guess original owner swapped it out. What baffled me was the tuner even scaled the injectors to 2000cc just to see if that would lean things out and the car just doesn't respond the anything he dialed in, he was at my house for over 4 hours trying to get things dialled in, the only way to get the car to idle without having to press the pedal is to adjust the fpr insanely low to 5 psi and it still idles pig rich. This is beyond me never seen this issue before.
     
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  16. Vegas smith

    Vegas smith Proven Member

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    Houston, Texas
    Hmm, you could possibly have super rich afr targets but I'm sure your tuner would have caught that. Perhaps there is a severe mechanical timing issue? Are you on a 2g maf? Speed density?
     
    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    GT30   manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD (sold)

    16g   manual
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  17. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

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    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    My tuner switched it over to speed density I have an omni 4 bar map and gm iat, before we switched over to SD the maf would let the car be extremely lean when we switched to SD it does the opposite and runs extremely rich
     
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  18. DSMPT

    DSMPT Proven Member

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    Joined Jun 12, 2014
    Sonora Mexico, Arizona
    You said it got too lean with a MAF. Was it with proper fuel pressure or with 5 psi? If it was with 5 psi of fuel pressure, just raise the fuel pressure and see what happens. and check if the injectors get controllable. If this would allow you to control the injectors then there is a possibility that the SD is not working properly with ECU.
    And make sure if the ECU is not fried, there is no hidden MAFT, SAFC or some that kind of devices under the hood or the dash.
    Since nobody in this thread can know if the car was a running car or a project car which had never run. If you can ask the previous owner for more details, that would be a big help to solve the issue.
     
    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    16g   automatic
    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Drag Race Build

    GT40   manual
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  19. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

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    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    I was on the phone with the previous owner, there was no safc or any piggy back stuff, the only time I turned down the AFPR to 5 psi was after we went to SD
     
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  20. HolsetGST

    HolsetGST Probationary Member

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    Joined Jan 10, 2019
    Orlando, Florida
    At this point I'm starting to think the ecu is bad, but will a bad ecu still allow ecuflash to send tunes to it?
     
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  21. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Are you sure you have a speed density base file in your ecu? you cant run a speed density file without running speed density and you cant run a maf file without a maf, those sound like a source of trouble now also, go back to the maf first until you get this figured out, I would install stock injectors right now and put a stock flash back on the car to see if it runs alright in stock condition.
     
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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