4G63,RB26 or 2JZ?

[JOEY A]

hell, why not. They just put that SC'd LS1 into an evo a little while ago.

Why do people put mix and match engines into different cars? The 4G63T is just as capable as any other motor. Bottom line is, 800 hp is 800 hp. The main question is, how much $ are you willing to spend "to be cool" (I mean, by making 800 on a 2jz dsm instead of a 4g63t dsm; because we all know it'd be cheaper to do it on a 4G63t)

\


A much wider power ban, more low end power, with top end grunt..


THIS THREAD IS GAYER THAN AIDS

 

[autronicDSM]

GVR4592- Broke ass ricer with a dream huh? I have the money to do it, thats not the issue, I was just hoping that someone who didn't have a one-track(4G63) mindset would have some useful words of wisdom. Everyone on this forum is so loyal to the motor, im loyal to the car as a whole. I want the power of a supra under the hood of what I believe to be the best car in the world.

Then go ahead and do it instead of asking about it! If you had the money for it, you wouldn't worry about it being reliable daily driver because you could like...actually afford another daily driver.

 

[ThingyNess]

I want the power of a supra under the hood of what I believe to be the best car in the world.

What the people here are trying to ask is -- what exactly makes you think a 1g awd is the best car in the world? All of its strengths you're going to eliminate by doing the swap, and you're going to keep all the bad stuff that makes it not all that great.

We love these cars because they're inexpensive, light-ish, turbocharged, strong, and more than anything, all wheel drive.

You're going to be yanking everything that makes a DSM so good -- the strong, compact 4g63 and its associated AWD drivetrain.

What else makes a 1g AWD the best car in the world?

It's certainly not its suspension/handling characteristics. Ask some of the *real* road racers on the board. The front suspension, being standard mcpherson struts, just like a geo metro, is far from optimal. Ditto with the rear suspension and its silly "active toe" system that you have to spend money and effort changing if you want to really handle well.

It's definitely not the brakes. Even the "big brake" upgrade from the later 1gs isn't terribly good in the grand scheme of things, and the older small brakes are pretty piss-poor.

And it's definitely not its interior/exterior quality/looks. No offense, but these things were designed to be cheap, and it shows with respect to the interior/exterior. Not that they're particularly bad, but they're light years behind a supra, 300ZX, RX-7 FD3S or any of the more refined/expensive sports cars.

So what do you have left once you strip the 4g63 and its drivetrain out? A low-quality econobox with a floppy chassis and a suspension to match, and sub-par brakes.

For all the effort, you might as well pick a *good* platform to start with, like a light, fantastic handling RX-7 that just needs more power to make it a spectacular car.

Try to find a car with an amazing chassis and a sub-standard engine rather than the other way around. Otherwise you might as well shoehorn your 2JZ-GTE into an old chevette or pontiac acadian. At least that way you'll be a lot lighter when all is said and done.

 

[thekellbeast]

For all the effort, you might as well pick a *good* platform to start with, like a light, fantastic handling RX-7 that just needs more power to make it a spectacular car.

Exactly, the RX7 is already rwd, light, and has an engine bay that's 'almost' big enough for the 2jz. That swap has been done twice that I've seen. I think they both ended up being straight line cars, and one was so bad that it ended up being a display model. Ever hear of bumpsteer?

I've never heard of anyone putting an RB in one though. Maybe it's a shorter/longer engine. Who knows. If you plan on doing the swap, you better know.

When you have a 2jz and transmission sitting in your garage, and a 1g dsm in front of you with a plasma cutter in your hand, what exactly are you going to do?

I like pnuemo's statement the best.

Maybe you could try something similar? Set a goal and see what it takes to get there. You'll start learning about what it takes to build a truely fast car, and what compromises are needed. Your profile says you're still on the stock turbo, stock injectors, and using a MAFT to tune. You have a long way to go if you want 800hp. With those mods there's a good chance your car is slower than stock. Sorry for the bad news.

 

[TSG59_Steve]

About friggin time!! I hate the idea of swap a garbage NISSAN or Toyota Straight 6 into our beloved DSM's.

That's where I have to draw the line. In no way, shape or form, are the Nissan or Toyota motors "garbage". Not for a DSM, maybe.

Vote for thread lockage. This guy can't do this swap. If he could, his car wouldn't be nearly stock. Nor would he be asking approval.

to the OP: Prove me wrong.

 

[freshlane]

I say keep it open and let him prove himself to the forum and show that he has created a thread worth reading.

Broke ass ricer with a dream huh? I have the money to do it, thats not the issue, I was just hoping that someone who didn't have a one-track(4G63) mindset would have some useful words of wisdom]

The debate is not that of a money issue. It is a debate of your intentions to truely create the vehicle. You are taking everything to personally. People are just stating that these ideas are brought up for every make and model but are rarely created.

 

[Ragin_TSI]

For pete's sake can we not let the DSM alone and I mean, I haven't heard anyone ask about the 6G72TT , it's perfectly fine with me.

A well done 6g72 can handle 1000+ HP (streetable too) no problem, so I say keep your engine swaps in the family.

If you do a 6 cylinder keep it Mitsubishi

 

[stockfornow]

I am not thinking about this "to be cool." I love the 1G DSM, thats why I wont just go buy a supra and be done with it. And the swap with a single turbo conversion, custom fmic, custom 4" exhaust, forged internals and street ported head will only cost $16K, and thats just the beginning. The 2JZ has way more potential then the 4G63, why is everyone hating so much!? Is it because you know I'm right and you just want to portray me as some stupid ricer who is looking for the "cool bov noise like Paul Walker has?" And for those of you who dont believe, why dont you go do some research on Ryan Woon who rips off 8.88 E.Ts in his street driven supra, smokes Turbo Hayabusas on the freeway, and pulls over 1400RWHP on the dyno before you open your mouths. Show me a 4G63 that can do all of that and I will take back everything I said. Just remember that I'm not trying to be an asshole. Like I said, I love the 1G DSM, it was my first car and for some reason I can't stop buying them(even though I could buy a supra or skyline if I wanted.) I just need to find a way to go faster!

Brent Rau in his 2G RWD Eclipse with 4G63 Magnus engine in it which is around 1400WHP. Faster than a Supra

I would still say 4G63, if you like your DSM, as much as you say you do. Also about the V6 under the hood, well too much weight in the front, understeer.

 

[marq95gst]

That's where I have to draw the line. In no way, shape or form, are the Nissan or Toyota motors "garbage". Not for a DSM, maybe.

Vote for thread lockage. This guy can't do this swap. If he could, his car wouldn't be nearly stock. Nor would he be asking approval.

to the OP: Prove me wrong.

+1 on that one.

 

[wvturbo2]

I don't have a one track mindset and I'd love to help you out. The 2jz and Rb26 are to amazing motor's, but big but If you were going to spend this kind of money it'd be cheaper to swap the rb into a 240sx or Just buy a Supra. Also if 2.0's are so shitty how come some Supra's run with a 3sgte a 2.0 turbo motor from the mr2??? One more thing please show me a link of a Supra or Skyline making 800 whp + on stock internals I'd love to see that. To run that much boost they would still need at least pistons and I seriously doubt the rods will hold up. One last thing if 4g63's arent worth keeping how come shep. is running 7's in his Talon???? Like everyone else said don't waste 50k on a 3k car. This thread is pointless because you'll never get it done.

I saw a thread like this on a Rx-8 forum bout putting a 2jz into his 8, but in his thread he actually had pictures of the work and did get the motor in. People were giving him hell because they all preferred the 20b (3 rotor) swap if you are going to swap the motor at all, but once it was all said and done with it was pretty nice. Anyway I'd love to see this done, but I seriously doubt you ever will

 

[1g_tsi_awd]

What's the difference between a 1500hp supra and an 800hp supra? ABout .01 seconds in the 1/4 mile...

If you want a 2jz get a supra, don't bastardize a DSM. Especially considering the 4g63 is a very potent power plant and is known for being extremely quick with less horsepower than its competitors. The 2js and rb26 are completely different power plants. If you want a 6 cylinder eclipse drop a 6g72 in there... That has actually been done, and at least you still have a the Mitsu name.

I think when all is said and done, you should just think about it a little more...

 

[gsx-lex]

I like ice cream but in my heart, I have loyalty to cheeseburgers. Why don't I put ice Cream in my cheese burger.

Original poster, give up now. We all know that this thread will be as far as you get on your 2jz DSM project.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Waste of a good car IMO. I don't have a problem with "interspecies" swaps. Nissan's into nissans, toyotas into the same. I'm not a fan of v8's into imports because you lose all the inherent characteristics of the car.

Yes the 1g might not be a handling beast, but you swap in a bigger motor and rid the awd, out the window it goes completely.

I just don't get the draw of pushing a stock motor to it's limits. Seriously, how long will it last? And whats the point? Just build a killer built 4g63 or swap a 4g64, OR meld the 2 and make a 2.3 stroker.

I agreed with the guys that said don't bastardize the dsm. They're great cars as they stand, don't mess with a good thing.

Like it's been said for decades, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

 

[ETS Michael]

I would buy a 240sx s13 - then pickup the mount kit from 2jzswap.com and swap the 2jz right into the 240sx and have some fun =)

 

[JOEY A]

Brent Rau in his 2G RWD Eclipse with 4G63 Magnus engine in it which is around 1400WHP. Faster than a Supra

I would still say 4G63, if you like your DSM, as much as you say you do. Also about the V6 under the hood, well too much weight in the front, understeer.

Um...

You do understand THATS A EXTREM FULLY BUILT DRAG ONLY CAR


In no way close to even being called a eclipse anymore

 

[staticbrainwash]

But he's still using a 4g63 is the point. And he's still destroying supra times.

 

[tkelly27]

I guess my problem with this thread is that he is implying that the 4g63 can't make enough "real" horsepower to satisfy him.

"The RB26DETT and 2JZGTE are capable of smashing into 4-digit HP numbers on stock bottom ends, the power output of either of these engines when moderately modified will It's alsosurpass most of the highest HP 4G63T's on the street today, and yes, I am talking about a "street car" (full interior, stereo, a/c, etc.)"

That statement is plain wrong. Things start to break inside 2jz engines at about 600hp. So what it comes down to for an 800-1000hp goal is buying 4 pistons and connecting rods, or 6 pistons and connecting rods, as I think both crankshafts in good condition will hold 1000ish hp. With heads and supporting mods to support both engines at that level, you'd probably be able to build two 800-1000hp 4g engines.

Then he references the 1400hp supra. Well, that's a mega expensive, fully built 3.4l. It also only runs 8.88 (maybe 8.68 something now? High 8's) in the 1/4. You can have all the power in the world, if you can't get it to the ground, and it's not setup with useful gearing, you will be slower than cars with significantly less power.

If I remember right there were pictures of Shep's talon with a baby seat in the back all the way up until he broke into the 7's. I should also point out that with 400hp less, he's a full second, and 20mph faster than the supra. Sorry, the 1400hp was at 42psi and in the 8.62 run he was running 59psi...

Anyways, do it, I hope it's an amazing car. I think you'll find it's not as much of a street car as you would have hoped it was, and as DSM's continue their development, you'll probably start getting spanked by automatic DSM's...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263085&highlight=record
(notice, driven to work, 30psi, no N2O). At least you'll have a really awesome asymptotic dyno graph.

Also, coming onto a DSM forum and saying "the 4g just won't make enough power for me to go as fast as I wanna go" is not a good way to win friends. A better question for this place is, how do we push the limits of the little 2.0 even further.

I wasn't kidding in my previous post about getting a 502 or a 572 chebby. For the price of a supra stroker bottom and worked cylinder head you could have an 800hp dyno tested beast with a warrentee from Mr. Goodwrench.

 

[Nors]

Those engines are better suited for a different chassis. Something lighter then a 4000lb DSM. Maybe an RX7/240. Which all require less work to get the engine in, and in turn, more bang for the buck.

 

[dsm-onster]

Those engines are better suited for a different chassis. Something lighter then a 4000lb DSM.

Not to be a d!ck but, what?

Maybe an RX7/240. Which all require less work to get the engine in, and in turn, more bang for the buck.

And again, what? a 240sx weighs in at over a FWD and under an AWD in stock for stock weight. Which RX7 weights anywhere close to this?

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Well, you've been here since 2004. So you are senior compared to most.

But I really don't understand your logic. IF you put either the 2JZ-GTE or the RB26DETT motors in your cour you are going to be sacrificing your AWD option. With out that your are going to have FAR more worse problems then the Supra or Skyline (GT-S) with traction because you are unbalancing the by adding a REDICLOUSLY heavy front end compared to the rear end AND the car is shorter. So you will have a car that has worse traction and handle far less then either the AWD DSM, Skyline GT-R, or Supra.

Basically you are just going to have a car to show-off.

Now before you go on a rampage about I am DSM biased. I'm going to throw out this. I think both the RB-Series Motors and 2JZ-GTE are both better motors then the 4G63 :O. Yep I said it. They are. They pretty much are 4G63s with two extra cylinders. I'm not debating the motor, but the car as a whole as you are.

There are far better things to the car for FAR less money then put an oversized motor that will off-balance the car.

 

[dsmgod87]

Okay, this whole thing has gotten way out of hand. It was just an idea. If you read the thread title it says "4g63, RB26, or 2JZ," it didnt say "#### the 4g63 im going to swap a 2jz." I was just seeing how the community would react as a whole. I love the 4g63, and contrary to most people's opinion I am no stupid ricer. I have built and tuned my 1g GSX to over 500AWHP and it is my daily driver. Like I just got done telling another memeber, I have owned nothing but 1Gs ever since I was 15, they are my favorite cars and what I love most about them is the sense of community that comes along with them. I just had a wild idea and thought I would share it with the DSM community, I knew I would take some flak for it but I didnt know it would get this bad.

 

[JOEY A]

Hes Got A Stock Car How Much Hp Does He Need Lol

 

[Nors]

Not to be a d!ck but, what?




And again, what? a 240sx weighs in at over a FWD and under an AWD in stock for stock weight. Which RX7 weights anywhere close to this?

Whoops sorry, kind of assumed you had an AWD. Which according to VFaq is 3,991 lbs (4000)
RX-7's weight in '89 was like 2600 lbs. or less.


My post can be overlooked since it was based on AWD weights.

 

[GVR4592]

The vfaq says an awd weight 4000 lbs? Do you have a link to that?

 

[arash15]

weight of a 2g awd is in the ballpark of 3100lbs + or - 300. plus depending on how much of a fatass the driver is. its funny how dsmtuners has so much factual information available and there are still the "stupidfucc" crowd that love to spread thier knowledge about dsms and goals right out thier ass.