A choice between the Walbro 190, 255, 255 HP, or the Inline 255?

Dragon TalonTsi · Nov 10, 2006

A friend and I are doing some research for these pumps. I had the 190 and 550's before, and no problems... Now I have a different setup in my mods list. My buddy had 650's, and a 255, but now we both are thinking about going to the 255 HP, and I did the search, and pulled up like 15 different searches, but none compared the whole Walbro lineup for DSM's. It was only one or the Denso Supra TT pump. I have read in one search, "THE VOLUME DROPS OFF LESS AT HIGHER PRESSURE. WHEN YOU BUILD BOOST THE AFPR MAKES THE FUEL PRESSURE GO UP AND THE VOLUME THE PUMP FLOWS GOES DOWN. THIS IS BAD. GET THE HIGH PRESSURE ONE. DUH." And here is another one, "If the 16g is as big as you plan on going you might as well just get the 190 pump then you won't have to get an Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator." See what I mean? No technical advice, no research or links to back it up, nor any maps or logs for it... I am trying to get all the hearsay and jargon crap out of these pumps. Here is another one, "190 will still overrun the stock fpr, just not as bad as the 255 and mostly doesn't cause problems that can be detected without installing a fuel gauge....mostly. I have so far helped two users with 10+psi overrun with the 190 pump that was giving them serious drivability issues, an afpr is still a good idea even with the 190." Here is someone questioning the truth on this, "Interesting. And since no one bothers to install a fuel pressure gauge when they put in a 190, no one finds out about it if there's a problem.
You're the first person I've ever seen mention anything like that, oldman." I need hardcore facts, cause I am trying to decide what upgrade to go with. Plus, this is for all the other newbies too.... Any help would be appreciated... thanks...

95blackGsTurbo · Nov 10, 2006

ANY fuel pump you get you need to get an AFPR to increase fuel pressure with boost. We have no idea what you plan on using it for or what your goals are but go with a 255HP and an AFPR. The pumps all cost the same and if you are going to get an AFPR anyways no reason not too. Recommend not putting so many quotes in your post and just asking the question because I read it three time's and still have no idea what you wanna know.

JayRolla · Nov 10, 2006

If your going with a 255 get the HP. You will need a AFPR with anything other than the 190. The supra TT fuel pump push's even more than the 255hp and is as quiet as a stocker. They are real nice.

andymoraitis · Nov 10, 2006

An AFPR is a solid investment with any pump (even the 190) to help dial in the correct amount of fuel pressure and function as an additional tuning tool. If you want to do everything once and do it right, pick up a 255 HP, an Aeromotive AFPR kit from Import Evolution and be done with it.

My personal experience after installing an AFPR on the 190 is that it didn't overrun more than 1 psi. The 255 HP overran my stock FPR close to 9 psi (pretty significant). You'll find that some tuners will even recommend running a 255 on the stock FPR under the assumption that eventually the overrun will be eliminated as the motor hits higher boost. I don't subscribe to this theory since there's no way to guarantee that the stock FPR will continue to provide a 1:1 rising rate in an overrun condition which is crucial to keeping the motor safe.

The reason it's hard to pin everything down to black and white is that some motors react differently than others. I had 9 psi of overun with a 255, but I have close friends who have seen 13, some have seen 6, etc, etc.

Below is a link to RRE's website where they compare different pumps for flow under standard and re-wired conditions:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/

Unfortunately, I can't give you a direct link to the page since the link isn't opening for me at the moment. Nevertheless it's in the 2G Eclipse tech section.

Let me know if that clears things up and PLEASE take the time to use proper grammar and the occasional paragraph when posting a question since it makes it easier to answer without getting a headache.

Andy

FORMONTOYA · Nov 10, 2006

Fuel pump selection really depends on your goals. Most will say just get the 255HP and an AFPR and be done with it. And I agree with this statement because there is not much if any difference in the price of the pump.

I also agree that ANY pump that is significantly "larger" will require an AFPR along with the pump. The reason a lot of people don't purchase an AFPR with the 190 is that the FPR overrun is not as noticeable as with the larger pumps, but it's there.

The need for an in-line pump is only required for a select few individuals that are pushing the extreme limits of their cars (the 1%er).

edit: god, it took me 13 minutes to write that...........I need to quit working.

Dragon TalonTsi · Nov 10, 2006

95blackGsTurbo said:
ANY fuel pump you get you need to get an AFPR to increase fuel pressure with boost. We have no idea what you plan on using it for or what your goals are but go with a 255HP and an AFPR. The pumps all cost the same and if you are going to get an AFPR anyways no reason not too. Recommend not putting so many quotes in your post and just asking the question because I read it three time's and still have no idea what you wanna know.

My buddy and I are doing some research, and I am trying to end all the searches for the 190's, 255's hearsay and rumors associated with these pumps... Reread my OP, it says it in there... My goals are set now, maybe an upgrade later on, bigger turbo, but I have all the supporting mods for it already... and in my Thread title, a choice between any of these... That is what I asked... Regardless of the goals or setups... I don't think I am that vauge on the topic...

spyderturbo007 · Nov 10, 2006

You need to decide what turbo you are going to run and then look at it's maximum airflow. Then go here and determine the appropriate fuel pump for your goals:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244522

FORMONTOYA · Nov 10, 2006

spyderturbo007 said:
You need to decide what turbo you are going to run and then look at it's maximum airflow. Then go here and determine the appropriate fuel pump for your goals:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244522

That's a really informative thread you linked to (and wrote).

With all the time and effort put into that it's a shame that I would still recommend going with a 255HP and an AFPR for 90% of the people. It will allow room to grow and the limits will probably never be reached (and the price difference is minimal).

Since I looked at the OPs mod list..............do you have DSMLink? If so, then I would suggest purchasing 850s at a minimum for the same reason as above...........room to grow, and you'll probably never max them out.

Of course in all the above statement, turbo selection is key, and all we have to go by is what's in your mod list.

DSMunknown · Nov 10, 2006

Dragon TalonTsi, if you could find all of the exact posts from which you took these quotes from and give direct links to them, I think that would be helpful. This shows that you didn't just pull these "quotes" out of thin air.

Dragon TalonTsi · Nov 10, 2006

I am assuming no one read my mods list... I have all the supporting mods already, but I am trying to clarify all the loose advice and jargon garbage in the forums... That is why I posted some of the questions in the other posts, and why I wasn't satisfied with the "advice," more like hearsay to me.
No matter, I have the flow maps, and the advice for a setup choice. I know that the Denso's push out 260lph, but they do need to be rewired, otherwise, they will starve for the extra voltage like the Walbro's do... hence the whining.
Andy and Jay, thanks for putting that into perspective... That is what I told him, but even I needed more clarification... I have asked around with some local tuners, and they always told me the Denso, cause Whinebros are not proven, and that the Aeromotives are too expensive. I might upgrade to the Denso one, but I am happy with the 255 HP right now, so that is further down the road...

Dragon TalonTsi · Nov 10, 2006

DSMunknown said:
Dragon TalonTsi, if you could find all of the exact posts from which you took these quotes from and give direct links to them, I think that would be helpful. This shows that you didn't just pull these "quotes" out of thin air.

That would have taken too long, it is in the first few posts of the searches that I did, I dont know how to link 4 different quotes form 4 different people... I didn't pull them out of thin air, read them for yourself. Search the way I did; type in Walbro, 190, 255, or Hp and this is what you get.

JayRolla · Nov 10, 2006

Actually the denso doesnt whine that bad at all without a rewire. It pushes enough fuel that you would never need to rewire it.

JayRolla · Nov 10, 2006

Well since you have DSMlink and you may go with a bigger turbo, i would say the 255hp or denso and 850-1000cc injectors. Also an AFPR. this way you will never have to upgrade again.

Dragon TalonTsi · Nov 10, 2006

JayRolla said:
Well since you have DSMlink and you may go with a bigger turbo, i would say the 255hp or denso and 850-1000cc injectors. Also an AFPR. this way you will never have to upgrade again.

Okay, I have DSM Link, and an AeroMotive AFPR, and all the other mods to support it.... read my profile.... 850-1000 CC's, phew, thats big... and the Denso is something that I look forward to getting soon... and the turbo can wait... I am happy with what I have now... Like I said, thanks again for all the help with this, and the research that Nathan did was great... and everyone else, thanks for the advice... Now that I (and my buddy) know full and well the options we have, I will pass along the info to others now... thanks again, this is why I love this site....

FORMONTOYA · Nov 10, 2006

Dragon TalonTsi said:
Okay, I have DSM Link, and an AeroMotive AFPR, and all the other mods to support it.... read my profile.... 850-1000 CC's, phew, thats big...

I imagine based on the first post that we thought you had changed from your mod list (at least I did), and we didn't know the accuracy of it.

850s plus may sound large, but it's really not a problem to control them with DSMLink (if I knew then what I know now). Plus, as stated, it gives you room to grow into that bigger turbo later on when the 16G variant is not enough.

Dragon TalonTsi · Nov 10, 2006

No, that has been there the whole time... Don't even try to make me out a liar, its just that I have it organized, unlike most people... and its been that way for months, even before the move to a different server, but I did have to update y gallery, but its all self explanatory. I know the E3 Big 16g is not enough, but it suffices for now...

FORMONTOYA · Nov 10, 2006

Dragon TalonTsi said:
No, that has been there the whole time... Don't even try to make me out a liar, its just that I have it organized, unlike most people... and its been that way for months, even before the move to a different server, but I did have to update y gallery, but its all self explanatory. I know the E3 Big 16g is not enough, but it suffices for now...

No need to "puff up the chest".

Based on what was written in the first post:

Dragon TalonTsi said:
Now I have a different setup in my mods list.

You have to realize that I read numerous posts during the day and look at a lot of grammar mistakes on a regular basis. While reading this posts my mind could have gone blank and I understood you to mean that you changed setups from what's in the mod list. Sorry to have hurt your feelings.

When you come onto the inter-web and ask questions you need to be prepared for someone to ask for some confirmation as to what the facts are. That's really the only way for someone to give you decent advice.

If your not up for that, then it might be better to stick with the locals.

(and no one mentioned that your setup was inadequate, just that if you're like most, you'll want more later on)

Dragon TalonTsi · Nov 10, 2006

I am not trying to puff my chest man... You have helped me before on some things... I just hate being called a liar, especially since I am not one... I dont bulls*&^, I speak only the truth. And that is hard for most people to believe, especially with cars... Most people talk too much crap... I know how the internet forums work, but I have the proof there, and I have the pictures, reciepts, and the sweat and tears to prove it... I know, I know, but I am trying to do the research, by asking the right questions, and getting the truth... Thanks again bro...

JayRolla · Nov 10, 2006

I was just saying go with large injectors since you can control them. Sometimes you can get larger for the same price so might as well.

brute · Nov 10, 2006

andymoraitis said:
Below is a link to RRE's website where they compare different pumps for flow under standard and re-wired conditions:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/

Unfortunately, I can't give you a direct link to the page since the link isn't opening for me at the moment. Nevertheless it's in the 2G Eclipse tech section.

Just to back up what Andy was saying, here's a table I made in paint that I posted in another thread...

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Dragon TalonTsi · Nov 10, 2006

Thanks for the chart.... it helps a little more...

spyderturbo007 · Nov 13, 2006

FORMONTOYA said:
That's a really informative thread you linked to (and wrote).

Thanks! I figured with all the "What size injectors" or "What fuel pump" do I need threads, it would be helpful.

FORMONTOYA said:
With all the time and effort put into that it's a shame that I would still recommend going with a 255HP and an AFPR for 90% of the people. It will allow room to grow and the limits will probably never be reached (and the price difference is minimal).

Agreed. I also think you should go larger than you need, just because everyone likes to turn up the boost.

I just wanted something that would show everyone exactly what different components will support. That should clear up some misinformation.

The Central Hub for DSM Community and Information

A choice between the Walbro 190, 255, 255 HP, or the Inline 255?

Dragon TalonTsi

95blackGsTurbo

JayRolla

andymoraitis

FORMONTOYA

Dragon TalonTsi

spyderturbo007

FORMONTOYA

DSMunknown

Dragon TalonTsi

Dragon TalonTsi

JayRolla

JayRolla

Dragon TalonTsi

FORMONTOYA

Dragon TalonTsi

FORMONTOYA

Dragon TalonTsi

JayRolla

brute

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