forgot, i have the log, and the radio worked...

on the log, unusual things... tps at 21.8%, o2-r at .01 v, maf would go up to 30 hz and then drop to 0 and stay there... timing stayed at 5, o2-f stayed at 2.5 (normal), injectors got up to 16.63 ms (normal for startup?) rpms got up to 187....

edit: also just realised i forgot to lube up the orings of my injectors, could this be it? is this normally a big problem if not done?

ok got the ignition sequence im running... here it is

from back of coil pack to front, 4123, from timing belt to passanger side, 1234

is this correct? (please tell me it isnt and thats why it wont start....)

tested with old 1g maf in (blow through set up, ghetto rigged...) didnt work

put on the old maf and the car still wont run... put on the old one and tried to see if the trouble shooting thing on the maft would work, and i dont think either of the led's blinked at all when i put the key in accessories mode... (thats how they work, right? two blinks when you turn the key to on if theres no signal from the maf...) my thinking is when i took the coolant lines off of the throttle body to re route the main line back to itself (by passing the throttle body completely...) i spilled coolant on the starter motor... since thats right there..... and even though it turns over, its working slowly because the wireing is now bad.... and the sounds im hearing are from over heating the starter...(was reading up on the starter motor in haynes and noticed it said never use the starter for more than 10 consecutive seconds without a 2 minute brake to cool down between every 10 seconds...

tested the fuel pump with my datalogger and it works fine... no cel....

NEW: after trying to start it again today i heard a loud sound again and then when i went back to my datalogger, the knock sensor read 254, (what happened was i was trying to start it, then it made a loud sound and it stopped trying, not i, and thats when the knock sensor jumped up to 254... no other counts of knock on any other attempts....both the stock and the gm maf would be at 30 hz at start and drop to zero afterwards....

thanks for all the help guys....

still wont start today, im guessing i shouldnt try starting it any more til i know whats wrong with it and fix it since i doubt trying to start it will help...

if anyone can get the rpm that the starter motor gets the crank up to before the engine starts working...(ie what speed does the engine reach before it can start up correctly) that would be great... mine is only getting to 180ish and im thinking thats tooo slow... so maybe thats the problem....

also, i still have no verification on the ignition timing, are my plugs correct or what?

ive been talking to a lot of people lately, and someone told me to hit the starter with a blunt object, and that that might work... i dont think ill do that unless someone else here says that works...

also are there any ways to test the starter motor, solinoid, and battery?

took me all this time to realise the ptu wasnt plugged in all the way,...

After hearing you crank if over and over again from your post - just try to jump start it would be the first thing that comes to my mind....

Oh yeah about 'hitting it' sometimes you can jar the "solinoid" if it gets stuck in place. But try the simple crap first - jump starting.

Either way heres the easy way to check the starter while in car...
if you can hear the motor of the starter cranking, but the engine is not turning over - its most likely the clutch in the starter motor, when the keys turned if nothing happens, but you hear a clicking from the starter, (the solenoid clicking) the problem could be your battary, or the solenoid itself (which is most likely why someone told you to hit it...) If you get NOTHING at all when you attempt to start the car, the solenoid has gone bad... Either way try to jump it lemme know.

does anyone know what the tests are once you get the starter motor out of the car?

take it to advance . tthey will test it 4 you

havent had a chance to take the starter motor out, but (dont remember if i already posted this here....) i found that the ptu was only like half plugged in....(hard to explain, but basically,...MY BAD)

now when i try and start the car it still wont start.. it wont even turn over... my guess is i fried the starter motor the last time i tried to start it before i plugged the ptu back in...

my plam says the battery is pulling 10.7 volts... is that enough to start up the car? or could it be the solinoid contacts? my guess is its the starter motor itself...

anyone know of a good place to take my starter motor to in the lamorinda area? (i dont know of any local autozones or anything.. im 17, ive only been driving for a year and a half and im on a budget... so i dont know where all these places are...)
if the battery is reading 10.7v is that good enough?

If your battery is reading 10.7 volts you are too drained to start the car. Jump it. Yes, your stereo works but it doesn't require the aperage that your starter does. Make sure to use some heavy gauge jumper wires or if you're stuck with thin, crappy ones let the battery charge for a good five minutes or so. Good luck.

charger it with what? i dont have any jumper cables...

In that case, take it down to your nearest Autozone/NAPA/Checker etc. and ask them to charge it. I'd call around first and make sure that they'll do it, but I know Autozone will do it for free. Oh, and while you're there go buy some heavy gauge jumper cables. Mine have a heavy rubber coating over them and are about 2.5 inches wide. You'll see a difference between the thin/thick ones. The thick ones carry a lot more current and will jump a car instantly instead of the crappy thin ones that take several minutes of charging if they work at all.

tstkl said:

charger it with what? i dont have any jumper cables...

Click to expand...

You're willing to go though with removing the starter but you won't buy a jumper cable? Friends, family........It's pretty clear that the battery needs to be recharged after all that cranking you did.

k i found someone with jumper cables finally... asked like everyone in my town that i know...(small suburban town...) and jumped the car... now its reading 11.8 volts, the car turns over... but still wont start... the maf was at 50 hz (or whatever the unit is that mmcd reads it in..) and the injectors got up to about 16 mps i think....still wont start though... anyone know why? someone told me that there might not be any fuel in the fuel lines since i left it not running for so long, but i tested the fuel pump (with mmcd) and with the number of times ive tried starting it i would think that there would be enough fuel... should i floor it while trying to start it or test the fuel pump more? are there any negatives to testing the fuel pump numerous times?

There are a lot going on here but before you make me read the whole thread, let's try this first.

from back of coil pack to front, 4123, from timing belt to passanger side, 1234

Click to expand...

Going from the front of the car to the back, the coils should be 4123 (left to right when looking from the driverside), I think you have it reversed.

oldman said:

There are a lot going on here but before you make me read the whole thread, let's try this first.


Going from the front of the car to the back, the coils should be 4123 (left to right when looking from the driverside), I think you have it reversed.

Click to expand...

FINALLY, THE ANSWER IVE BEEN LOOKING FOR...let me draw up a diagram so that we can be 100% sure... i dont need the answer til after the psat tomorrow so i can wait...

also about me being willing to take out the startermotor...when it did run i had grindy starts and couldnt figure out what it was... so i figured id try this...http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190946&highlight=starter

oldman said:

There are a lot going on here but before you make me read the whole thread, let's try this first.

Click to expand...

or we can try this... ill go back and delete all the stuff that you dont have to read...

You got it reversed. It's 4123 in the other direction on the coil.

Thank God Its Not Something That Costs Money...

tstkl said:

Thank God Its Not Something That Costs Money...

Click to expand...

Did I forget to mention my fees? Were you wondering why they made #3 the longest wire?

actually yes, but i found someone on this site saying that the correct sequence is how i had it... either way, on to the important stuff

switched up the wires (so they are correct...) had to jump the car again... and now it starts when i jump it, but it seems that 1 the battery wont hold a charge, and 2 (more importantly and maybe the reason why number 1 exists...) the car will not idle... i try and start it and it starts and then dies... i started it and gave it a little gas... no good... i moved the throttle cable up a bit so it would be at about 15% instead of 10... no good... it seems that it just free falls... as in when i reved it up and then took my foot off the gas.. the tach just kept falling and falling.... and i didnt even hear the engine running after it got below 1k...(aka there was no combustions below 1k, it was still turning obviously... but unless i gave it gas it would just fall flat on its face...) my thoughs: bad maf? boost leak? (aka manifold not tight enof since the pos torque wrench i used starts and 5lbs so i just went to 19-27 ft lbs instead of what hanyes says (14-22) also i couldnt even fit it on the underside ones so i just had to go by feel...(these feel about as tight as the top ones...) maybe thats leaking...i used all new gaskets except one on the throttle body, cuz the pipe i bought only came with one, and the old ones were replaced....i think 1 or 2 months ago... the dealership did it either way... and the gasket looked fine...also still havent lubed the o rings.... dont know what to use to lube them... maybe they are leaking there?