Car not the same with new timing belt/water pump

GSXpress · Oct 16, 2004

So here's the deal.

I took my car to a "Performance Shop" in MD. I asked them to replace the timing belt, TB tensioner, and water pump. Got the car back the next day. When I started the car, I noticed instantly that the car was not the same OMG

. I took it for a spin around the block and noticed that the exhaust tone was alot louder around 3000+ rpms. I'm still on the stock exhaust so I'm not used to this loud tone. I used to full boost around 2700 since I'm still on the T2small. Now the guage shows full boost at 3000 but there is no thrust like before. Seems to hesitate for a sec before you "feel the kick in the pants". Also, before I used to be able to hear the turbo sucking air loudly as I accelerated, and the BoV was very audible ever since the dump tube hack. But now, all I hear is "OOOOoooOOOommmm" from the engine bay as I accelerate.

When I got back to the shop, the technician who worked on the car looked around, touched a few things, bliped the throttle a few times, and said it was fine. I asked him to take it for a spin with me. He drove around the block with me and said it all seemed normal. :mad:

He's probably used to cars that are highly modified (exhaust, big/laggy turbos), but I know something is wrong.

What can go wrong when replacing a timing belt/water pump to make my car this way. Do you think the shop took the downpipe off to get to something and didn't put it back on tight? or would it most likely be a timing issue? What should I check to maybe fix this before I drive 60 miles back to the shop?Please help.

:confused:

erc's_gsx · Oct 16, 2004

im leaning towards a timing issue.

x camaro owner · Oct 16, 2004

if you have a hesitation after haveing the timeing belt done it because the belt is a little loose. they probably followed the directions from the dealer when they installed usually those lead to a hesitation. i redid mine cuz it had that hesitation and was like screw these direction i have done belts for years so i just did it by feel and i no longer have a hesitation
and plenty of thousands of miles on the belt to timiing belt takes about 2 hours for me to do. the water pump is a pain because its a bizzz niiiitch to scrape that old gasket off. best thing to do when needing to scrape that gasket is to find your self an asian to do it, there hands can get in there.

no need to worry about anything going wrong it shouldn't jump. its fine the way it is but its just annoying it could be tightened just a little bit.

they didn't have to touch your downpipe or any exhaust to do this job

i am sure book time is more than 2 hours for a timing belt but book time is there for people after they have quite a few rounds of shots at the bars.

whether or not they will redo it good luck

best part is when i drive other peoples car i can feel the hesitation all the time, you be surprised how much quicker you can jump off the line after the hesitation is gone. i always get people off the line

GSXpress · Oct 16, 2004

<--- has asian hands

They charged me 4.1 hours of labor. If they didn't have to touch any of the exhaust, what explains the loudness and the vibrations?

x camaro owner · Oct 16, 2004

don't know about your exhaust but for timing belt and water the exhaust need not be touched it would be pointless to

sedah · Oct 17, 2004

My Car recently had a very very similar thing i had the whole timing belt balance shaft and 60k service it came back all all loud and honda like after 3k rpms as well as no real power feel not that i had it before since my clutch is gone but i felt belts still stock on a 13 year old car were way more important then the clutch

Well it turned out to be the balacne shaft was rotated 180 off

they redid it free of course
because it was their mistake even though they didnt know it

good luck

1993eclipseGS · Oct 17, 2004

They could have messed up while installing the timing belt. It could be a tooth or two off.

Defiant · Oct 17, 2004

GSXpress said:
I took it for a spin around the block and noticed that the exhaust tone was alot louder around 3000+ rpms.

Your balance shaft is 180° out of phase, and I'll bet he got the rest of the timing wrong by a couple of teeth as well.

92GSXman · Oct 17, 2004

Yep, this happened to me a few weeks ago when I got my timing belt replaced. When all of the timing marks are lined up, there is a 14mm bolt on the back of the block by the knock sensor that you take out and a 8mm screwdriver should slide all the way in. If it only slides in an inch or so your oil pump sprocket is out of phase just like someone mentioned already. Problem is, you have to take the timing belt covers and all off to line up all of the timing marks. I had a spare engine in my shop and I had to get the mechanic over here and show him what he did wrong. Makes me wish that I would have just trusted myself to do it.

DSM90AWD · Oct 17, 2004

Hope this isnt' the same MD "DSM Shop" that f-ed up my $500 belt change :mad:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146658

http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1143275#post1143275

From my recent experience.. easiest thing to do to check is put a screwdriver down the#1 sparkplug hole and turn the CS pully with a 1/2"-drive (clockwise-only) until the screwdriver is at max height. The CS pulley ignition timing mark should be at TDC on the scale of your lower T-Belt cover..

Now check your Camshaft Sprockets with a ruler. Both dowel pins should be at 12 O'Clock and the timing mark should be perfectly aligned at 3 and 9 O'Clock.

GSXpress · Oct 17, 2004

No I didn't take it to the "DSM shop" in the Elkridge, MD area. I called them up and asked for a price quote. They came back with and estimate of 7+ hours of labor + parts for a total of over $1000. So I took it to a different "Performance Shop" in Gaithersburg, MD who charged me 4 hours of labor for a total of $565.

I'll call the shop up tomorrow and tell them they my balance shaft is 180 degrees out of phase. I just hope they know what I'm talking about and how to fix it, cause I'd have a hard time if I had to explain it to them. Thanks for all the replies guys.

Oh one more thing. Is it safe to drive the car in it's current condition? I'd have to drive it back to the shop if they're willing to fix it. It's about a 45 min drive.

Luke223 · Oct 17, 2004

I had my belts and all including the water pump changed and they had the balance shaft 180° out of phase. It was very noticeable to me, engine would not rev as quickly and the car felt like it was running through sand above 3K RPM -- but they said everything seemed to be OK. I had them recheck it and sure enough the balance shaft was out of phase. This was a guy that had done several of them in the past too.

Luke

blassss · Oct 17, 2004

seriously don't people line the marks up before taking the belts, naaa why do that it would be to easy

loreak · Oct 17, 2004

yes the loud engine is 100% balance shafts out of phase, take it back and make them redo it and fix your timing belt

power issue wouldnt have anything to do with bshafts out of phase but it could be off some teeth

GSXpress · Oct 17, 2004

Do you guys think it's safe to drive the car in its current condition? I'd have to drive it back to the shop if they're willing to fix it. It's about a 45 min drive.

DSM90AWD · Oct 17, 2004

If it's just the BS' out of phase then it should be ok to drive.

BTW.. it may make you :cry:

.. but check out what Josh's (ex PartzNet guy) charges for the T-Belt service AND BS Elimination
http://www.jnztuning.com/services.html :thumb:

GSXpress · Oct 17, 2004

If those prices include the parts, I'm gonna cry :cry:

Oh well, it's not like they're close to me. That shop, according to an area code look-up, is somewhere in PA. That's too far to go to get a TB replaced

Doug99RS · Oct 17, 2004

I'm with Defiant on this. Something is out of timing. You can easily rule out the primary timing belt by putting a vacuum guage on the manifold. If you've got 18-19 inches of vacuum at idle then the primary belt is timed right and I would look for the balance shaft belt to be out of wack. If vacuum is less than 17" then I would suspect that the primary belt is out one tooth causing it to behave quite differently.

It's possible that the tensioner is slightly out of whack but I would lean more towards timing being out all together on one of the belts.
Doug

Defiant · Oct 18, 2004

I stopped into the shop that did my belts while they were working on it, and was welcomed into the rack to see what all they'd found. They'd not put the belts on yet, but the old ones were off. I started to tell the mechanic about the shaft check plug, and he said, "Yeah, you can do that, or look...." and he showed me the fall-to-the-left test on the balance shaft.

It made me feel very secure about the guy doing the work :thumb:

Ludachris · Oct 18, 2004

GSXpress said:
If they didn't have to touch any of the exhaust, what explains the loudness and the vibrations?

The exhaust isn't the only thing that changes your exhaust note... messing with the firing order can do it.

GSXpress · Oct 26, 2004

Just an update. I took the car back to the shop. The tech put the car on the lift and showed me that all the marks were lined up. He also showed me the screwdriver test, along with the "falls to the left" trick. That gave me some confidence in his abilities. So all he really did was make sure everything was tight. Well, when the car was off the lift, I took it for a spin. Problem solved. Car is back to normal.

DSM90AWD · Oct 26, 2004

What was it.. an exhaust leak?

GSXpress · Oct 26, 2004

no exhaust leaks. something probably wasn't tight enough. After he put it back together, it runs fine. It was kinda mysterious, but when you take into account that we're talking about a DSM, I guess it's normal. :shhh:

someguyjon · Sep 1, 2006

This is an old thread, but this exact thing just happened to me this week.

I drive a 1996 GST, and it currently has just over 59k miles on it.

I need brake pads and rotors (shouldn't need rotors at 59k, but I do...), and I sent it to my usual mechanic to estimate the work needed and to check out the timing belt. Well, I had a small leak in my cam seal or crankshaft seal, and it was getting oil on the timing belt. So, I told him to go ahead with the timing belt replacement.

He replaced the timing belt, alternator belt, AC belt, idler belt, camshaft seals, balance shaft belt and crankshaft seal. I believe all this rubber was originally installed in 1995.

I picked it up Wednesday night, and the engine was loud and vibrating like crazy. I knew right away something was wrong, but I drove it home anyways - I had no other way home from work. I took it back to him yesterday morning, and took him around the block in it, and he said it felt fine. I told him it wasn't normal, and he agreed to tear it back apart, since all their work comes with a one year or 12000 mile warranty.

To make a long story short, I called him last night before I got a ride home from work and told him I found info on a DSM site that said my problem was most likely balance shaft 180* out of phase. I don't think he appreciated the suggestion, but I'm sure this is what happened now. He put it all back together late last night, and when I picked it up today, it's purring like she used to. :thumb:

Oh, and about the brake job, he wants $600 US for 4 rotors, 2 sets of pads and 3 hours of labour! I'll be laughing about this all the way to the auto-parts store and at home this weekend (not really) when I change them myself for a third of that.

DGajre777 · Sep 1, 2006

someguyjon said:
This is an old thread, but this exact thing just happened to me this week.

I drive a 1996 GST, and it currently has just over 59k miles on it.

I need brake pads and rotors (shouldn't need rotors at 59k, but I do...), and I sent it to my usual mechanic to estimate the work needed and to check out the timing belt. Well, I had a small leak in my cam seal or crankshaft seal, and it was getting oil on the timing belt. So, I told him to go ahead with the timing belt replacement.

He replaced the timing belt, alternator belt, AC belt, idler belt, camshaft seals, balance shaft belt and crankshaft seal. I believe all this rubber was originally installed in 1995.

I picked it up Wednesday night, and the engine was loud and vibrating like crazy. I knew right away something was wrong, but I drove it home anyways - I had no other way home from work. I took it back to him yesterday morning, and took him around the block in it, and he said it felt fine. I told him it wasn't normal, and he agreed to tear it back apart, since all their work comes with a one year or 12000 mile warranty.

To make a long story short, I called him last night before I got a ride home from work and told him I found info on a DSM site that said my problem was most likely balance shaft 180* out of phase. I don't think he appreciated the suggestion, but I'm sure this is what happened now. He put it all back together late last night, and when I picked it up today, it's purring like she used to.

Oh, and about the brake job, he wants $600 US for 4 rotors, 2 sets of pads and 3 hours of labour! I'll be laughing about this all the way to the auto-parts store and at home this weekend (not really) when I change them myself for a third of that.

Glad to hear it worked out for you. I paid $100 for 4 rotors and all pads and my mechanic even rotated the tires for me.

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Car not the same with new timing belt/water pump

GSXpress

erc's_gsx

x camaro owner

GSXpress

x camaro owner

sedah

1993eclipseGS

Defiant

92GSXman

DSM90AWD

GSXpress

Luke223

blassss

loreak

GSXpress

DSM90AWD

GSXpress

Doug99RS

DSM N/T Wiseman

Defiant

Ludachris

GSXpress

DSM90AWD

GSXpress

someguyjon

DGajre777

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