Stock Seat Belts VS Race Belts; What is safer?

[my_precious]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2X-R...33725QQitemZ8030717901QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

There is a link to a pair of Ralliart 4 pt harnesses. Here is my question:

I've read up on this a little bit, and I havn't been able to reach a solid answer. As far as I know, any type of aftermarket raceing harnesses are meant for track use only. Due to whiplash and whatever else, they are not suitable for street use. They are designed to be used with a Helmet and Haans device.

HOWEVER, I've seen a lot of dsmers on here with race belts and I've had people tell me that as long as the belts are mounted above your sholders you're good. Another thign I've heard is that the stock seat belts can also give you whiplash and brake your neck etc.

OK, that being said....I can either buy racing harnesses now, or I have some canadian belts lined up already that I can use. Either way, I need belts because the previous owner of my car has removed all of the electric belts and pieces. I DO NOT want unsafe belts, but then again I am going to use this car for track days and possibly rally raceing, as well as my daily driver. So, harnesses would be nice. I dont have a mounting bar, or a roll cage yet, and wont for awhile. I just want to know if I should wait and buy some harnesses (possibly those ralliarts) or buy the Canadians.

To make this even more clear:

Which is safer, standard car seat belts (3pt), or 4pt-6pt Raceing Harneses for STOCK aplications (no roll cage, helmet, haans, etc...could get a harness bar though)

 

[FORMONTOYA]

IMO: The reason not to use a 4-5 point harness and racing seat on the street is because most people at best just use a harness bar to attach the belts without adding a roll bar also. The problem is when/if you roll the car and the roof collapses. With a factory 3 point harness you can lay down on the passenger side of the car, have some 'wiggle room'. With a 4-5 point harness plus racing seat you are stuck in the seat (which is what you want when racing) and when/if the car rolls over without a roll bar/cage you get crushed along with the roof.
Stock app.: 3 point.

Jim

 

[my_precious]

at those ralliarts some more they look cheap and they are only 2 in. ill just buy the stock seat belts and go with harnesses later i guess. it still doesnt answer my question though.

 

[mavisky]

I am held in the seat better by my sparco 4 points, but I'll be ditching them for a 3" should harness setup with 5 point attachment. The anti-submarine belt (or belts in teh case of a 6 point) will help keep you safe. I'm also going to be adding a roll cage to go along with my fixed back corbeau this year.

 

[beatshack]

Don't most 4 or 5 point harness' have a quick release button?

 

[slugsgomoo]

either a quick release, or a cam lock, which does the same job.

Since mavisky brought up anti-submarine belts, I just wanted to clarify- Anti-subs are not to prevent you from sliding out from under the belts, they are designed to keep the other four points from riding up. Many organizations are moving to requiring six points these days.

Harnesses are a pain in the neck on the street, which is their biggest downside, also, they have no give, unlike the stock belts which let you move, and then lock down hard. This could be good or bad, depending on how you look at it. The biggest thing is that harnesses are only as safe as their mounting points, and while rolling the car could be a concern, it's not my biggest worry in a wreck.

 

[ihaterice]

i recently rolled my truck and had it crushed into a ball. i was wearing the stock seatbelts. since that accident i will never go with anything except stock seatbelts. and i would never trust my life and my passengers with 18 buck seat belts.

 

[mavisky]

Yea, thanks for mentioning that little fact. I forgot to bring that up in my post

 

[slugsgomoo]

i recently rolled my truck and had it crushed into a ball. i was wearing the stock seatbelts. since that accident i will never go with anything except stock seatbelts. and i would never trust my life and my passengers with 18 buck seat belts.

That is actually a good point, there are two things to keep in mind here.

1) If you have been in an accident with your stock belts, check them, if they have pulled at all (there's a little loop to help absorb the force) they MUST be replaced to be safe again. Your insurance company must replace them for you BY LAW in that case.

2) You get what you pay for. I wouldn't buy cheap, ebay seatbelts. My life is worth more than that, and you can get sparco's, or simpson, or another quality belt on sale in reputable shops for a good price.

In the riding comunity, the old saying is "$50 head, $50 helmet". Safety gear is the one place to NEVER cut corners.

 

[MrBoxx]

A friend of mine works at the Dearborn Ford plant. He recently got to ride with a designer in a test Mustang, equipped with four-point harnesses. Apparently Ford is considering offering them in the 2009 Mustangs, probably in the high-end (SVT) models. The difference with these was, as he put it, the lower belts across the lap were electronically tensioned to reduce the possibility of sliding under them in an accident. It will be interesting to see if this is actually carried out and how the public will respond to it.

 

[mavisky]

Scroth sells 4 points that have been sled tested and are DOT approved. They are the only approved 4 points in the market. I got cheaper 4 points, but still spent over $100 on my Sparco's, I am looking at about $250 for the next set of harnesses I'm looking at, per side that is.

 

[my_precious]

Yeah, i took a better look at those ralliarts after i posted that and noticed that they had an actual stock looking seat belt latch for the centerpiece. also, they looked like book bag straps...very cheap. If i bought any harness I'd probably go with a Simpson cam lock 6pt. another thing i was thinking was a sparco corsa seat, but this stuff will come much later.

 

[mavisky]

My sparco's have that same latching system and they work fine, but I wouldn't trust them out on a road course exactly.

Here are mine installed on my old stock seats. Feel free to bi*** about the mount on the strut tower bar too, everyone else does. I'll believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. I do intend to change the mounting point once I get the cage in, but this will do for my autocrosses now.

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Btw these are the real sparco belts, not the cheap ebay knockoffs. In the end though they all look about the same to me.

 

[my_precious]

nice. i love those inserts in the seats. i figure'd when i first saw the tops of the seats (noticed they were stock) that you just had them wrapped around the seats. What did it take to put those in/how much did it cost? I saw something like them with that DSM on the cover of Sport Compact Car magazine.

 

[Defiant]

I've read up on this a little bit, and I havn't been able to reach a solid answer. As far as I know, any type of aftermarket raceing harnesses are meant for track use only. Due to whiplash and whatever else, they are not suitable for street use. They are designed to be used with a Helmet and Haans device.

Harnesses far pre-date the Hans Device. The trouble with harnesses on the street is regulatory. I'd not heard of any harnesses before now being DOT approved. The manufacturers are still up against the Federal Motor Vehicles Safety Act, and all the rigamarole that entails.
I don't know how many of the general public could figure out harnesses. 3-points seem to be challenge enough for them.

 

[Xplicit93AWD]

I really liek that setup to keep stock seats but get a nerness for them how did you put those inserts in the seat i have been wanting to do that to my stock 1g seats but i just have not seen anyone do it so i never bothered asking if you can post a how to it would be great

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[Slapnut]

Are my eyes playing tricks on me??? Are those belts mounted to an aluminum strut tower bar???

 

[my_precious]

what's so bad about that?

 

[Slapnut]

They are meant to be bolted or secure around or to a good sound location i.e. the floor or the roll cage. I have seen crashes where the strut tower bar is busted into pieces, i just don't want our friends being injured!

 

[mavisky]

Are my eyes playing tricks on me??? Are those belts mounted to an aluminum strut tower bar???

No, you are correct. Right now I'm only using them for autocross until I get my new cage welded in. I attempted to use the attachment points where the rear lap belts went and it looked to be too steep of an angle. As soon as I find a point to mount them that's less than a 45 degree angle I'll gladly move them, but there isn't any place like that on our cars and noone makes a harness bar for our cars to use either.

 

[DSMboostin15]

I'm with Xplicit. I too would like to know how to do that to the stock seats. They are really comfortable and I don't want to have to get rid of them in order to have harnesses.

 

[99gst_racer]

Scroth sells 4 points that have been sled tested and are DOT approved. They are the only approved 4 points in the market.

I have been using Schroth harnesses for the over 2 years. I like them alot. The only downside to them is the price, being that they are DOT approved. I believe I paid $140 each for mine.

Kyle - I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Slapnut on the mounting. You are much better off mounting to the rear lap belt mounts. That is where I mounted my Schroth's. The angle is not too severe and is safe. Schroth actually recommends the rear lap belt mounts as an optimal mounting point.

http://www.subesports.com/products/cat/Harness+Belts/brand/Schroth/prodID/243
(these are the harnesses that I use)

 

[SBstar]

I have G-force 5 points, they're inexpensive and yet very good quality.

 

[mavisky]

Maybe I'll switch the points up and re-check the angles on it.

As for modding the stock seats, it's on vfaq. It'll set you back about $44 for the harness slots from Corbeau and of course whatever the harnesses and cutting tools cost that you don't already have.

I'd thought about selling the driver's side seat as I've got a corbeau in its place now, but there's no way I'd ever bother trying to ship that huge bastard.

 

[SBstar]

Yeah shipping those buggers would cost more then you could sell them for. I want to get rid of both of mine too. The general consensus here is that mounting your harness to the rear seat belt mounting points is ok, but from elsewhere I've heard you'll never pass inspection at a drag strip, anyone have any experience on this?
But as for the original poster, go with something 3" or thicker that meets SFI 16.1 standards. For a street car I would probably not go with a racing harness, since most aren't DOT approved for street use.