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PA emissions question. Can I pass with no cat?

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PlanZero

Proven Member
1,516
263
Aug 13, 2013
Easton, Pennsylvania
I purchased a 3" cat back recently for my 96 Tsi and after inspecting the horrendous condition of my down pipe and cat I decided to just get a 3" downpipe, obviously with no cat. I live in PA, and the place I go for inspection does not do a visual emissions test. I planned on just keeping the old dp for testing, but after doing some research I don't even know if that's necessary. Assuming I use an O2 sensor spacer to avoid a CEL, does anyone from PA know what else is scanned for emission testing? I know I'm allowed to have 3 or 4(can't remember which) I/M sensors read not ready. I'm not sure what other data is read, if any, by the state emission computer.

Interesting side note: the EPA has listed 96 and 97 TSis (but not gst/gsx) as having problems with the ecu and I/M readiness testing, and that they should be tested without regards to readiness, but I could not get PA to recognize this for my 97 Tsi last year.
 
In Easton, no you will not pass. It differs from county to county in PA though. I hear that in the Poconos they have no emissions testing requirements. In Northampton County, they will likely do a visual check and they certainly test for emissions.
If the car isn't your daily, do what I did and register it as a classic..LOL. Emissions exempt!
 
My city doesn't have emissions laws (thankfully), but Denver, 60ish miles north does. However I got a ticket last month for an aftermarket exhaust, just because it's not oem. Yet that makes no sense in a city with no emission laws.
 
Your car is registered in Easton? If so, that's Northampton which requires an OBD and gas cap check. Assuming your O2 simulator works (no codes set) and there's no CEL, you should pass the emissions test as the computer detects no codes and the inspector observes that the CEL is not illuminated. Based on that, you should be issued an emissions sticker.

As for the readiness monitors, model year 1996-2000 cars are allowed 2 monitors not ready. 2001 and up are only allowed one not ready. From what I see, the EPA readiness exception list does include the 1997 Eagle Talon w/ Turbo but you're not dealing with OBD readiness. Regardless, if the emissions computer passes your car and your CEL isn't illuminated, you should be issued an emissions sticker.

Now, regarding the annual state vehicle inspection, there is a visual inspection of the emissions equipment portion for counties which do not have an OBD check. Technically, this portion does not apply to you so you should "technically" pass the state inspection without a cat as the inspector doesn't need to do a visual inspection of emissions components for your county. If the inspector misses the fact that there is no cat installed while looking under the vehicle, you should be issued an inspection sticker. If he does see that there is no cat installed, technically, he should still pass the vehicle for state inspection, but will he? Who will you complain to if he doesn't? As you can see, there is a gray area here as the law does not take into consideration for O2 simulators. It's assumed that if there is no code set for cat efficiency, then there's a cat present and that it's functioning properly.

Here's the link for the EPA list of cars with OBD readiness issues.
http://www.epa.gov/obd/regtech/420b12044.pdf

Did the car pass emissions testing last year and in the previous years with a cat? Did you ever have emissions inspection issues with the OBD readiness monitors not ready?
 
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You can get a high-flow magnaflow catalytic converter on ebay for about $80 for a 3in exhaust and not have to worryabout it. I personally do not care for the o2 spacers. I prefer the electronic one that you wire into the sensor and still uses the heater signal from the o2 sensors. I think I last saw them still available at 3sx for the 3/S platform. You can also build one pretty cheaply. I believe you can find it on VFAQ.
 
Holy crap AWDpetmitsu, you are the expert I was hoping to hear from. The place I go does a bare minimum visual check, so I don't have to worry about them not seeing the cat. This car is a 96 Tsi which I recently purchased from a guy in the sticks with no emissions requirement. The inspection is good til Oct, and I haven't been pulled over yet for no emissions sticker. I've disconnected the battery several times for various reasons, so of course my pocket scanner still reads most I/m sensors "not ready" since I only drive locally and haven't completed a drive cycle recently.
However, I went through hell last fall with my 97 Tsi, where the monitors simply would not set. The emissions guy from Harrisburg basically gave me a one time pass (not because of the EPA) because he remembered the car from years ago, and I assured him I probably wouldn't put more than 5k on it this year. I discovered the ecu was actually swapped at some point, so I recently purchased one from a girl in Cali who assured me she never had a problem passing smog out there. We'll see. Both my 96 and 97 are dailies, and I don't want to have to stress about keeping the milage below 5k.
 
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The requirement is to have it emissions tested within 10 days of purchase, but the probability of getting caught is very low being that you have a current state inspection sticker.

When you say he gave you a one time pass, was it an exempt sticker or a waiver?

Is the old exhaust and cat still on the car? Are there any major or obvious leaks? If not, then drive it and try to get the monitors to set and then get it tested. If the monitors don't set because of the defect in the ECU, then there is a hotline that the inspector can call to ask for assistance and you can request that a referee be brought onto the case to assist you. You can try to explain to the referee that the car is listed in the list of exempted cars for the ECU readiness problem. Either that or do what you did with the other car and swap in a known good ECU. Chrysler was supposed to fix this issue as there was a recall about it but I doubt you'll get very far with that option at this point. I read that not all Talons were affected by the recall even though it was the model year stated in the recall.

As for the cat, if it were me, I would just run a cat and avoid the hassle. For one, it helps the environment. Secondly, the smell of the exhaust without a cat is unbearable, Performance-wise, unless you're driving a race car, the loss in horsepower is negligible. There are many options. You can buy used stock parts that will just bolt on without modifications or you can get a set-up fabricated by an exhaust shop.
 
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I am a emissions inspector in northern va. Here we are required to do a visual check of the cat and rear o2 sensor. You should weld a fake cat heat shield to your down pipe to make it look like you still have a cat incase your inspector happens to do a visual check underneath your car.
 
OK, let me clarify a little. My 96 Tsi is the one I originally posted about running with no cat. The ecu on this car is fine; I/M sensors are ready.
My 97 Tsi is the one with issues. The emissions guy in Harrisburg talked to the shop owner and somehow I got a sticker. I guess it's a waiver (?). This car has a full 3" apexi ws2 exhaust with high flow cat. The issues were present before and after exhaust installation. The ecu was replaced at some point before I got the car (purchased from NJ BTW), and supposedly it always had problems because the emissions guy actually remembered the car from 9 years ago when it was at a dealership. I put a new ecu in recently from a girl in Cali, and my I/M sensors are still not ready. Trust me, I know the drive cycle on these cars, so that's not it. I really don't know what else to do about it except try to keep it under 5k. If inspection time comes and I need emissions testing, I will have to deal with Harrisburg again and a ref. But seriously, WTF is wrong with this car?
 
My city doesn't have emissions laws (thankfully), but Denver, 60ish miles north does. However I got a ticket last month for an aftermarket exhaust, just because it's not oem. Yet that makes no sense in a city with no emission laws.
Wait, what? You can't get a ticket for having an aftermarket exhaust. Old mufflers are replaced all the time with non-oem parts.

What were the circumstances of the ticket? What was the actual charge?
 
I just went through emissions in WA and I could not pass to save my life. I was 12 points over the HC at idle limit LOL. I has a hollowed out hi flow cat to look like there is a cat on the car but it does nothing. I failed to pass my visual inspection because of after market intake. So i called Mitsubishi to see about buying an intake and the parts are obsolete of course. So I called the Ecology department here in WA and told them that OEM parts are not made for my car anymore so i would not be able to make it stock from factory. They said ok and waved my emissions for the next five years so that way in five years my car will no be required testing due to the 25 year mark. Cant fail you if they don't make parts for the car anymore.
 
Ok, so you should have no issues with your '96 Talon passing emissions then.

As for your '97, are the 2 ECUs compatible? Can you swap the '96 ECU into the '97, complete the drive cycles to set the monitors and then get it tested?
 
I never even thought of that. Of course, that's assuming the ecu is the issue. It must be, right? I'm gonna keep this ecu I got from Cali in the 97 for awhile and see if the IM sensors eventually kick on. If not, swap it with the 96, which I know is a working unit. As far as I know, they're interchangeable. It's only the later black box ECU's that may throw a code.

One other inspection related question. Will I pass without a working third brake light? The light on my thumbnail spoiler is broken and filled with condensation. From what I've read this is a sealed unit. Some say try to swap it with a low rise eclipse, but no one seems definite on the fitment. Obviously around here finding a 2ga talon at the junkyard never happens. I don't even care unless I need it for inspection.
 
I passed smog, barley, without a cat in California. Two were at 100/100 but my car was hollowed out. (I had no idea) and passed. Mitor was tuned up fine tweaks with cas etc but it may be possible
 
Brake lights shouldn't have anything to do with emission unless your state is completely stupid. Emissions should only be the exhaust and intake components. If they say something tell them I didn't know brake likes could produce hydrocarbons
 
I have no idea, motor was just rebuilt, and tuned up by a mechanic running prime, barley passed but passed I'll see if I can find the paperwork when I get off, and it was a random, reputable, not sketchy shop. Although mechanic did an evap leak and was good but smog guy said needed new gas cap, then passed.
 
I have no idea, motor was just rebuilt, and tuned up by a mechanic running prime, barley passed but passed I'll see if I can find the paperwork when I get off, and it was a random, reputable, not sketchy shop. Although mechanic did an evap leak and was good but smog guy said needed new gas cap, then passed.
Thanks, I'd like to see that. Gives me hope haha
 
I'm referring to inspection, not emission. Part of the visual inspection is checking the brake lights, horn, etc.
PennDOT code 175.66 states that only one red stop lamp on each side is required, but I thought that federal law mandates that if a car is manufactured with a 3rd light, it's required to work.
 
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Yes, all lights, if originally equipped, are required to work in order to pass the PA state inspection. This includes all brake lights. You can get pulled over for a nonfunctioning third brake light.

Try asking Miller Import Parts to see if he has one. Chances are pretty good that he does.
 
I know you refer to visual rather than emissions, but i would suggest before testing pump some e85 which burns cleaner and will help fix your numbers. GL
 
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