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2G Mitsubishi Eclipse 1999 (European Version) Painful Journey

Posted by DSM_15_2G, Dec 6, 2018 at 8:21 AM

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  1. DSM_15_2G

    DSM_15_2G Probationary Member

    5
    2
    Joined Thursday
    Serbia, Europe
    Greetings everyone,

    I've been on this forum for years now, learning and reading stories of other people.

    First of all, I am from Europe and I own a 2G DSM (1999) European Version (4g63 NA).

    Mostly the car is the same as the GST, it has a weaker transmission with a bit shorter gears and of course, no turbo.

    Before I start, I have to note that these cars are pretty rare here and I didn't have much of a choice in picking and that I only have 1 shop here that can work on it. So if you see that I've made some mistakes, please let me know

    I've bought the car 2 years ago from a 2nd owner that I knew for year and a half. It was the only 4g facelift version in my country. The car came with 3 inch exhaust, some aftermarket speakers, amplifier, aftermarket cheap shi**y headlights and chinese rear bumper and tail lights. (Half rice)

    The car was driving ok, it was loud and the wheel bearing was also giving some noise in the cabin which drove me mad. I've noticed the car not having 100% power when you give it gas. I had fun with the car that whole summer until it was time for the shop and maintenance makeover. Some guy Imported spyder 2g with everything stock, and I've acquired it pretty cheap, so I've replaced headlights and tail lights with stock. Also in the mean time, the car started charging 18 volts, so I've replaced 75 amp alternator with the 90 amp one from the spyder.

    Now the car went to the shop, the only reputable shop in my country for the Mitsubishi.
    I told the shop that they have the green light to replace everything bad. They ended up doing:

    Timing (belts, water pump, tensioner etc.)
    Suspension (what was needed, wheel bearings, rear knuckles, control arms etc.)
    Cleaned injectors, new Fuel Filter and installed evo 9 fuel pump
    New Exedy Clutch set with slave and master repair kit
    Installed the stock exhaust
    New oil and filters
    New spark plugs (BPR6ES-11) and NGK wires
    New fluids in the trans
    Cleaned throttle body
    Cleaned MAF
    New Crank Sensor
    New Cam Sensor
    New valve seals
    Engine leaks fixed

    Theres more but I just can't remember on top of my head right at this moment.
    After that I've installed 3 Pro Sport gauges (Volt, Oil Temp, Boost (Planned to boost it))
    And a Eonon double din radio

    Now comes the fun part.

    The car ran great, it was pulling great, the clutch was nice and the feel was great. Even tho It has 150hp the car felt strong and responsive unlike before. Ten days have gone by and the car slowly returned back to its former state where it wasn't giving 100% and was sluggish when accelerating.

    I then bought new OEM coil pack from extremepsi, new Oem Cam Sensor from extreme, new Spark plugs and rechecked all the connectors under the hood. But after installing the new Coil pack, I've noticed the car running great again after disconnecting the battery, but just for a minute or two until it warms up, then goes back to running sluggish.

    I went to the shop again, they said my new clutch was slipping and the release point was high. They adjusted the clutch pedal release at the half and the car did feel a bit more responsive but it didn't fix the power issue.

    I drove the car like that for 2 months until one day I heard strange noise from the clutch and it had a strange feeling, (crackling feeling while pressing or in rpms when shifting).

    Went to the shop once again, they sprayed some WD40 onto the hole in the trans/slave and the noise went away but the cracking feeling stayed there. And I've countinued driving the car for 2 months until I bought the GST manual Trans to replace mine (had a 2nd gear grind). Thinking it will solve the problem with the clutch.

    Fast forward to now. The car was in the shop, they diagnosed the bad O2 sensor (which I had new waiting for install and bad idle motor that starts up your car when cold and keeps it at 1200rpm). The new GST trans got new KOYO bearings installed with some bushing for the shifting linkeage from extreme. Anyway, the shop said my throw out bearing was shot but the rest of the clutch was fine, so replaced the TOB and installed the trans.

    Forgot to mention, a month before I went to the shop the car suddenly started cranking a bit longer when starting up warm. (In the shop they said the evo9 pump lost pressure and reinstalled back my stock one which ended up fixing the problem). After the reinstallment of the old fuel pump, new O2 and that step motor for idle, and new trans the car was again pulling awesome, lost some torque due to longer gears but I could feel the difference.

    I drove the car again 5-8 days and I felt the car AGAIN losing power. The clutch was weird from the moment I got the car back, it had some vibrations (mini cracking of before) when in rpm and when you press it all the way, it felt like it could go more but from that point it was the spring.
    I've tried the clutch drag test, put it in 1st gear, clutch pressed all the way to that spring spongy feeling, in 5-6k rpm the car moved forward. When I depressed ALL the way in even with that spring which feels very uncomfortable and never felt that before, it doesent move but you can feel that cracking feeling that I've felt before.

    Now I'm speechles, the car is sluggish again, the clutch is weird and probably slipping. I've invested well over 10k into the car over these past 2 years trying to make it run right. If anyone can give me some input I would appreciate it.

    Apologize for the longer story but wanted to cover mostly everything to give you all a better picture of what was done and everything.
     

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  2. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    220
    62
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    Greetings from neighboring Bulgaria! Nice to see more people getting into the DSM game from Europe :)!

    Your story is very familiar. Some typical problems that you've experienced. Also, I have also let the "most reputable shop for Mitsubishis" work on mine and often times they didn't do so well. These cars are simply too niche and really, only people that have worked on them before can really find the weird quirks and problems. So you have better luck if you keep reading here and doing things yourself.

    For the clutch, I am surprised that a brand new Exedy kit gave you trouble. Did you make sure to follow the break-in period? Exedy is one of the OEM supplied clutches when these cars were new anyway, it shouldn't have been a problem.

    What happens is people almost never seem to properly adjust the clutch. There is a clutch-switch stop that you must tweak as well as the master rod itself. Also the N/A master clutch cylinder has a different length to the rod, so if you ever changed that you need to remember if you ordered for turbo or non-turbo.

    I am trying to find the original guide from these forums, a fellow member had a great guide on how to adjust it the right and only way, it was about 15 steps but really easy to follow. I just can't seem to find it. If you were having bad/slipping clutch issues, you should also be able to smell the awful fumes that come from a slipping clutch.

    Have you made sure to read the OBD2 port and see if any hidden errors have been logged?
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14.769 @ 92.22 MPH
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  3. DSM_15_2G

    DSM_15_2G Probationary Member

    5
    2
    Joined Thursday
    Serbia, Europe
    @Kryndon Hey man, where are you in Bulgaria?

    To be fair bro I knew there is a break in period but the shop already "tested" the car in higher rpms. But I drive the car mildly all the time, except when Im passing someone.
    So I guess that break in period got skipped.

    As far as the master and slave, they are still the original that came with the car, maybe that could be the issue I am having with the clutch? We didn't know that was suppose to be changed as well. Can you give me more info on that?

    One more thing I forgot, there was some kind of accumulator tank on the GST trans which gets connected to both master and slave and eases the feel, of course we used my stock NA line so it got deleted but I see people deleting it with Stainless Steel braided Lines.

    I did smell awful fumes when the TOB was seized. Now I don't

    Also the car seems to run better when its colder. Maybe temperature sensor?

    The shop has some advanced diagnostics that can read sensors I guess. The O2 Sensor was out of charts, and the step motor for the idle when starting was bad. Both got replaced, but as you know, I still have 2nd O2 behind the catalytic converter which is some universal bosch sh**.

    Anyways, do you have Facebook? I just planned my trip to Bulgaria with the car LOL
     
  4. Kryndon

    Kryndon Proven Member

    220
    62
    Joined Jan 10, 2014
    Bulgaria, Europe
    I'm from Burgas, which is literally on the Black Sea coast. But we've got some really experienced and knowledgeable DSMers around my town, so if you ever decide to come over, we'd be happy to meet and help out in any way we can!

    The master/slave don't necessarily need to be changed as long as they don't give you any trouble. If you want, you can try to disassemble them for cleaning and inspection of the bore/piston/seals. If needed, you can order a replacement kit for those components, or just buy new cylinders if you have to. But usually bad master/slaves would result in no clutch or a pedal feels mushy and the piston not displacing the required fluid, thus less pressure-plate actuation.

    The small accumulator thing you're talking about is indeed for making the pedal feel softer for daily use and comfort. It is not really needed for everything to work right, and it gets in the way of a stainless steel hose install, so people get rid of it. A friend donated his stainless line to me, that goes directly from MC to SC and I actually like the change; it's more direct and let's you do quicker shifts without grinding gears prematurely.

    As far as the temp sensor, if it was bad, it automatically puts your car in limp mode and it wont really let you rev high or sometimes even start the car. It's a cheap unit, but first use a scanner and check what sort of temps the ECU is seeing when fully warm. Should be about ~95C (200F). Keep in mind the little temp gauge on the dash is fed from a separate sensor so it may show halfway (95C) but if your main temp sensor is bad a CEL might come on and the car wont run right.

    To be honest, it looks like you've already changed most of the main sensors. The O2 after the cat wont affect much in terms of performance, it's the main one before the cat that is crucial to be in good order. But if your 1st O2 was bad, chances are your 2nd one might be on its way, coupled with a probably clogged up catalytic converter.

    I had a '96 EU GS before my current one and the only time it felt sluggish was when I had improper gap on the plugs. The BPR6ES-11 are the correct ones for this car, so you're good. But make sure they are gapped to the N/A spec. Off the top of my head I believe it was about 0.9-1mm. Best to check the manual if you have one. I mean, it's a heavy car and for its ~150 HP, which is probably about 110 at the wheels if we have to be honest; it's not really a fast car.

    I'll PM you with my FB details; always nice to make a new DSM buddy :D
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14.769 @ 92.22 MPH
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  5. DSM_15_2G

    DSM_15_2G Probationary Member

    5
    2
    Joined Thursday
    Serbia, Europe
    @Kryndon

    That's awesome, always wanted to visit the Black Sea.

    The shop told me the first time I was there that the both Master and Slave were repaired with the kit.

    The accumulator thing was removed in my case.

    The issue that I have with the clutch now is following:

    1. You press it all the way to the end (won't shift very well, have to force the gears) and put it in 1st gear, rev the car to 6000-7000 rpm and the car moves forward a bit
    2. You press it all the way to the end and you feel theres the spongy feeling from the spring, you then "floor" it to the floor, which is very hard to do, then rev it, the car stays but the clutch is cracking just like it did before when my TOB was seized.

    Before as everyone else I could have pushed the pedal all the way to the floor smoothly and feel nothing no matter the rpm

    As far as sluggishnes. Even when the car is in neutral, when you rev it, its not as responsive as when it worked well. It will struggle to get to 3k rpm, whereas before on a light touch it would reach 2.5k near 3k

    Now when you get it in 2k rpm when you give it gas, its delayed, I am guessing lack of fuel?

    Or my ECU might not be good, I am lost on that part haha

    When you disconnect the battery for a day, it will run okay the next 2 mins until it warms up and goes back to the same thing

    Since I think its related to fuel, could knock sensor be the issue? If so, how hard/easy is it to replace?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 6:44 PM
  6. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    1,062
    216
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Do you have a way to take a datalog of the car and post it up? if not that needs to be your next purchase really so that we can have a look at what the ecu is seeing to make its decisions.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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  7. Issues

    Issues Probationary Member

    4
    0
    Joined Oct 28, 2018
    Hungary, Europe
    Hey man!

    I feel you, i am also from Europe. I am not even sure if there was more than 20-25 Eclipses in my entire country.

    I wanted to get GSX so badly, but i just could not find any. I checked nearby countries too - none for sale, one or two ads popped up, but the cars looked like they just escaped the junkyard :( There is very few GSX/GST in my country, but the owners do not want to sell - I understand, i would not either. :) I settled for a 1997 GS with 420a. But at least it was in good hands and has nice condition, good base for future project.
     
    My DSM:
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  8. DSM_15_2G

    DSM_15_2G Probationary Member

    5
    2
    Joined Thursday
    Serbia, Europe
    @motomattx You are talking about ECM Link? My car is European GS which is non Turbo and I cant run a gst ecu just yet

    @Issues Hey man, we only had 1 GSX here but it was in a big ass crash and the car I got was in the best condition in my country, we have like 7-10 Dsms here.
     
  9. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    1,062
    216
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    It doesnt have to be Dsmlink, just a datalogger at this point would be fine, a Tactrix cable and the Evoscan program would work.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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  10. DSM_15_2G

    DSM_15_2G Probationary Member

    5
    2
    Joined Thursday
    Serbia, Europe
    @motomattx I am trying to figure out how will evo scan work and where can I get one

    I saw on their website, 25$ for the software but I just can't find out which cable I can use to connect to my lap top

    Update: My bad I didn't read carefully you said tactrix cable
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018 at 7:35 AM

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