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Current (2015) known FWD dyno record? Searched..

How much FWHP is TOO much for a street driven 1g....


  • Total voters
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I dont think you can say emissions is a limiting factor on being a street car because ALOT of places dont do emissions. Just sucks for those that do.

If you drive your car on the weekends I'd still consider it street, even if it's gutted. If you drive it to work every day more power to you

If it's registered, insured, plated and tabbed then I'd say street car, doesnt matter if it's a motor on wheels if you got it reg'd; good for you street car owner LOL.
 
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Amen. Street legal is a widely used term, as is street driven. Keep in mind guys I was more on the hunt for the actual FWHP record, more then the street car part. Just curious if the record car was perhaps, a street monster, by chance..

Like I said earlier, I'm not implying that I'm trying to break the record. I'm just wondering what the record is. I suppose we could deviate slightly off topic, and discuss setups to achieve 1,000fwhp, although technically, that would be considered a different thread I suppose. What do you guys think?
 
Maybe Tim would be willing to post his setup..

I'd imagine a record attempt build would need a 100+ lb / min turbo, built motor, and built auto or twin disc clutch if 5 speed..

Thoughts?

Trap speeds are always nice, but like E.T. They simple give you an indication of how well your complete setup is functioning..
 
How would a dyno NOT be measuring the complete setup functionality just like a trap? IT ALWAYS has to do with the complete setup. A dyno is a simulation for the real deal, and the real deal is to back up the numbers, am i right?

or by record are you talking a one pull wonder cause thats not hard.
 
Definitely not talking a 1 pull wonder here. But making power and seeing it manifest itself (E.T. And trap speed), are to total different things. Making power isn't nearly as difficult as E.T. Or trap speed. As you know I'm sure.. Most 16g DSM's I see struggling to run 12's, but there are tons of 350whp 16g cars.. Easily 11 second cars..
 
Seriously you guys, my entire setup has been public for over a decade. It is in detail on here, as well as on my website - http://www.tmzperformance.com/racecar.html

I have done a couple track passes in FWD at DSM Shootout after I broke my rear end and tcase, and changed the car to FWD to finish out the day. I didn't have the suspension set up for it at all, and did a burnout in 1/2/3 gears to hook in 4th on 30psi. It was hilarous though. I will look for time slips. The last pass I did a burnout through 1/2/3 and grenaded the transmission when it finally hooked, then coasted to the end.

As for the car in AWD, the car is 3310#, it does 9.4-9.5 at 155mph on 30psi with the new aero; before it would do 148-149mph. I have done 132 in the 1/8th on 40psi (broke in the back half), as well as I have gotten several 5.9's and one 5.8 at 40psi. The car simply doesn't like keeping driveline components in it for higher power levels. I simply haven't had much time in the last 2 years to spend racing my car at the track due to other responsibilities, as well as I have wanted to refresh the 8 year old motor in it first.
 
I don't see how the dyno measures your setup as it would equate to E.T. or trap speed, it just gives you tangable data as to how well your engine's components and tune are currently working. Dyno numbers are showing how well the engine works, whereas, E.T. And trap speeds show driver ability, and how well the track prep, suspension, and tires/diffs are working. To prove my point. My 2g made 339whp (8 years ago). My best time was 13.1 on a stick trans / street tires / no track prep, 2.2 60'. Now, because my track time sucked doesn't mean my cars not making 339whp?

You are are correct, in saying 1,000whp, SHOULD show low 8 sec. pass, but just because it run a 10 second pass and trap 140mph, does mean it doesn't make power on the dyno necessarily

Tim, I've seen your setup(s) posted numerous places. I just didn't know if something was changed for the FWD dyno pulls.

I'm thankful for you more experienced guys chiming in on my thread. I'm starting to think maybe THE reason there aren't really HIGH horsepower FWD DSM's is because of the factory AWD option. In the Honda world, FWD is the only option (for the most part), hence the handful's of HIGH power cars in there camp.

IF (and this is a big if), I were to pursue the FWD dyno record, what "DO's or DON'Ts" would you guys offer up? (I imagine avoiding the FWD trans completely would be listed). For an example, there's no reason to bother with any injector other then 1,600+cc sized injectors I would also assume.
 
I'm thankful for you more experienced guys chiming in on my thread. I'm starting to think maybe THE reason there aren't really HIGH horsepower FWD DSM's is because of the factory AWD option. In the Honda world, FWD is the only option (for the most part), hence the handful's of HIGH power cars in there camp.

IF (and this is a big if), I were to pursue the FWD dyno record, what "DO's or DON'Ts" would you guys offer up? (I imagine avoiding the FWD trans completely would be listed). For an example, there's no reason to bother with any injector other then 1,600+cc sized injectors I would also assume.
Just don't expect the fwd tranny to hold a 1000whp. I am trying some different things with the new one I am building. I will post some pics of the isotropic gears tomorrow they look pretty! I am sending the 3rd gear cluster shaft alone with 3rd and 4th gear to be wpc treated on top of the rem. I spent a lot of hours deburring the gears before dropping them off to be rem finished. we shall see how it turns out. I may take a stab at the record again myself when tranny is complete.
 
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Best advice if you think you are going to try and break records? Have an enormous amount of disposable income. Even with doing everything yourself labor/fab/repair/rebuilding, you still have the cost of services, parts, consumables, and replacement parts. I think I am on around 28 or 29 race transmissions in my car now over 14 years. If you want to calculate that single replacement part, its a metric ton of cash. Being that the car has been above 500awhp since 2003/2004, thats a long time of high power. After 500awhp, you start breaking ALOT of things. Even then, 500FWHP is absolutely nuts to drive on the street; try driving something like mine in FWD on the street and its just ridiculous; my LOWEST boost level does a burnout in ANY gear at any speed. Yeah, 5th gear burnouts on R-compounds or Slicks with zero effort.

Also, with that said, the parts for these cars (transmission parts, etc.) are getting harder and harder to find as well as there are a large amount of completely discontinued parts that are no longer available new, so either stockpile a metric shitton of parts, or be smart and keep your power levels down. These transmissions were never designed to sustain this kind of power for an extended period of time. If you want the most durability out of a FWD, then I would suggest doing a Quaife or KAAZ LSD front diff in an AWD case with a PPG gearset and the trans converted to FWD. Couple that with a twin disk and you will have a good setup. If you are intending on sticking with a FWD case/gearset, then you better damn well have a Quaife front LSD differential, and a faceplated OEM gearset with shotpeening and REM (or WPC, or Cryo), and a modified Quarter Master Gear Drive twin disk with FWD street twin flywheel.

If you even think that you have a budget, then you probably shouldn't do it. This stuff is not cheap.
 
I don't see myself ever going for that much power. That's ridiculous in fwd as stated above. If you have a shit load of money and just want a temporary record then by all means spend away. I'm over 25k in mine and will be happy with 600hp. Would be nice to get the dyno page back up and running so you can see what has been done with what.
 
I had a 1996 gst with 403whp with a phantom grip lsd and I made over 30hrs of street racing videos back in 2000.
I was brnoutking on here. And even got my car into a video game because of it.(brent rau helped build it back when he was sponsored by osofast)
I can honeslty say fwd are "from roll monsters" the taller gears at least for a lot of my races won me races over cars with a lot more hp. However the racing scene switched to 1/4mile and I learned real fast fwd trannies hate being launched... any type of wheel hop and you can almost expect the tranny to be toast shortly afterwards.
(6 tranny's in 7 months was my final straw)
I swapped everything to a 1995 gsx and went through 1 tranny in 3yrs.
in thr 9yrs I spent first go around with these cars I stopped keeping track after $140,000 (built 3 cars, repairs , cost of racing, etc)
 
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Best advice if you think you are going to try and break records? Have an enormous amount of disposable income. Even with doing everything yourself labor/fab/repair/rebuilding, you still have the cost of services, parts, consumables, and replacement parts. I think I am on around 28 or 29 race transmissions in my car now over 14 years. If you want to calculate that single replacement part, its a metric ton of cash. Being that the car has been above 500awhp since 2003/2004, thats a long time of high power. After 500awhp, you start breaking ALOT of things. Even then, 500FWHP is absolutely nuts to drive on the street; try driving something like mine in FWD on the street and its just ridiculous; my LOWEST boost level does a burnout in ANY gear at any speed. Yeah, 5th gear burnouts on R-compounds or Slicks with zero effort.

Also, with that said, the parts for these cars (transmission parts, etc.) are getting harder and harder to find as well as there are a large amount of completely discontinued parts that are no longer available new, so either stockpile a metric sh**ton of parts, or be smart and keep your power levels down. These transmissions were never designed to sustain this kind of power for an extended period of time. If you want the most durability out of a FWD, then I would suggest doing a Quaife or KAAZ LSD front diff in an AWD case with a PPG gearset and the trans converted to FWD. Couple that with a twin disk and you will have a good setup. If you are intending on sticking with a FWD case/gearset, then you better damn well have a Quaife front LSD differential, and a faceplated OEM gearset with shotpeening and REM (or WPC, or Cryo), and a modified Quarter Master Gear Drive twin disk with FWD street twin flywheel.

If you even think that you have a budget, then you probably shouldn't do it. This stuff is not cheap.
OP you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free! Well said Tim. I am looking at the moment into the twin disk for fwd but with some form of street disk friction material does this even exist? Okay just went to tims site and yes they exist my next purchase. Tim what' the life expectancy of the street material considering I drive my car all the time. Thanks.
 
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Kelvin, the street friction ceramic material lifespan will depend on the driving style. For example, I got around 25,000 miles out of my RACE friction disks but I pretty much idle out from a dead stop and don't slip the shit out of my clutch. The street material should last better than the race material if it is kept at normal temperatures. If you are doing launches on the street all the time, and street racing, and abuse, well, they will last significantly shorter. The most abusive street friction material owners had around 8,000-15,000 out of them, while I have a few that are well over 25,000 miles on theirs. Again, it all comes down to how you drive the car.

Just remember, if you are going to do a multi-disk clutch, it also takes more toll on your transmission. It likes to mushroom synchros, and pop/break hub and slider springs. So, if you have passed the limits of the SBC SSX pressure plate and full ceramic disk, then this is on the list of things to do. If you are intending on doing a face plated dogbox or a PPG dogbox, then by all means, do the twin disk. If its staying a synchro trans, stick with the single disk as long as possible.
 
So, basically, PPG dogbox set with a twin disc or just go auto? I saw someone said they are $25,000 into there car and they are only hoping for 600hp. What did you buy that you have 25k into your car? That sounds like a really high amount of money to make 600hp..
 
Dude, you think $25K is alot, you are on drugs. That is a drop in the bucket to modding and maintaining this kind of power.

When you build a complete car, you have a serious wad of cash going into it with quality parts.

I have about $16,000 in simply drive line on my car (axles, transmission, transfer case, rear end, differentials, drive shafts, clutch, hub assemblies), and that is part cost only, no labor, with none of the breakage costs even listed (add another $150K or so LOL).

If I wanted to build a 600HP car as cheap as possible to actually hit upper 9's/bottom 10's, I would likely go with a 2.0L Eagle/Ross 9:1 combo, stock 1G head with valve springs and 280* range cams, a SMIM, a FMIC, intank 255 w/ inline 255 pumps on 2200cc injectors for E85 or 1350cc on race gas, a GT4088R or GT3586HTA equivelant turbo and tubular manifold, intake/exhaust stuff, a set of light wheels and slicks, QM twin disk and a faceplated DSM ratio gearset with Evo 3 1st gear, welded center diff (if running a FWD, then an AWD case/gearset converted to FWD with a Quaife LSD front diff; if AWD an open front diff with welded center diff). You will get some quick times in if you cut all the fat out of the car. If you want it to last more than a season of beatdowns, then that's where the costs come into play with all the associated reliability parts.
 
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So, basically, PPG dogbox set with a twin disc or just go auto? I saw someone said they are $25,000 into there car and they are only hoping for 600hp. What did you buy that you have 25k into your car? That sounds like a really high amount of money to make 600hp..
Hmmm let's see built transmission 3k, clutch kit, flywheel, polyurethane bushings, coilovers, motor mounts, there's another 3k+. And that's not even the good shit. Probably 6+k in a built long block. Oh an ets short route front mount? Intake? Down pipe? Exhaust, 02 housing, turbo, exhaust manifold, catch can, ss lines, fittings, tuning setup, injectors, fuel pump or pumps, smim, throttle body, wastegate, bov, radiator, fans, slicks, gauges. Can go on and on. Sure I'm over kill for 600 but my turbo is my limiting factor. You can make 600 much cheaper and less reliable but then when you want more you gotta buy parts again.

There's always more with these cars
 
You guys make my brain hurt. We are making significantly more power than anyone is talking about here with pennies on the dollar, extreme reliability and through a single plate clutch with a fwd transmission. Where there is a will there is a way. Experience will get you farther than any amount of money you can spend.
 
Well Steve, you are a rare breed with some excellent fabrication skills, and you have been in the game long enough to have alot of experience, and you can think outside of the box.

Being that not everyone here has alot of experience, and some are still in the 200-300HP range with hopes and dreams, they will have to rely on either:
*Pure awesomeness at life in every ability, with some money
*Decent experience and abilities, with more money
*Just learning, with even more money
*Newb, but with abilities, even more money
*Total newb, no abilities, needs someone else to do it for them, which means a bunch of money

To maintain, AND race a car in the 10's and faster it takes a large toll on the drive train. Things break; it's racing. Stuff isn't free unless you make it and even then, materials cost money.
 
Dude, you think $25K is alot, you are on drugs. That is a drop in the bucket to modding and maintaining this kind of power.

When you build a complete car, you have a serious wad of cash going into it with quality parts.

I have about $16,000 in simply drive line on my car (axles, transmission, transfer case, rear end, differentials, drive shafts, clutch, hub assemblies), and that is part cost only, no labor, with none of the breakage costs even listed (add another $150K or so LOL).

If I wanted to build a 600HP car as cheap as possible to actually hit upper 9's/bottom 10's, I would likely go with a 2.0L Eagle/Ross 9:1 combo, stock 1G head with valve springs and 280* range cams, a SMIM, a FMIC, intank 255 w/ inline 255 pumps on 2200cc injectors for E85 or 1350cc on race gas, a GT4088R or GT3586HTA equivelant turbo and tubular manifold, intake/exhaust stuff, a set of light wheels and slicks, QM twin disk and a faceplated DSM ratio gearset with Evo 3 1st gear, welded center diff (if running a FWD, then an AWD case/gearset converted to FWD with a Quaife LSD front diff; if AWD an open front diff with welded center diff). You will get some quick times in if you cut all the fat out of the car. If you want it to last more than a season of beatdowns, then that's where the costs come into play with all the associated reliability parts.
You are right I can't tell you how many young cats locally come to me gun-hoe about getting into the dsm game. One guy found a car, pull the engine and brought it to me and wanted to build the engine making decent power and ended his statement by saying just build it like your engine. After completing the head and the stuff that goes into it he ran out of money and gave up, had me to sell the car and all his parts. I knocked off my labor and gave him the difference and kept the head. I have another buddy that went out and purchased a 1g, broke the car down , bought all kinds of goodies, pistons , rods , cams sent the head to bogus and he also ran out of money after paying almost a 1000 dollars just for head machining and his car has been sitting is pieces for almost 3yrs. I asked him the other day what are you going to do with the dsm and its stuff he said sell, I then asked him what are you looking to get for it his replay what he has in it almost 5000.00 and he was just getting started, I told him its going to continue sitting for a while. I really do feel for those who can't do most of what needs to be done to these cars yourself that's the only way to really make it work without going too deep into the pockets.
 
If a car makes 450hp at 8,000' da and is corrected to 700 hp, it's only putting 450hp worth of stress on the drivetrain at that altitude.

This isn't downing anything you guys do, you have to deal with the environment you live in, which happens to be way up in the sky.

Also, I've broken more transmissions at 100mph than launching the car. It's a fact of dsm life. You either have to pony up serious cash for a Trans every year or two if you drive the car a fair amount, or learn to build them, and have a source for new parts.
 
We have a stock pile of parts and good junkyards. The key is we build our own transmissions. There is nothing magical about what we do. All the small detailsadd up to a reliable, fast car. I tune on a super stingy dyno these days. And numbers have not meant much to me in along time as a time slip means more to me. My friends still want that number but, how they get down the track is what is important to me.
 
After completing the head and the stuff that goes into it he ran out of money and gave up, had me to sell the car and all his parts. I knocked off my labor and gave him the difference and kept the head. I have another buddy that went out and purchased a 1g, broke the car down , bought all kinds of goodies, pistons , rods , cams sent the head to bogus and he also ran out of money after paying almost a 1000 dollars just for head machining and his car has been sitting is pieces for almost 3yrs.

Yeah, too many times these kids get wrapped up in trying to go after these big numbers they can't afford. They think they need all these expensive parts, when truth be told they could have spent way less, had a running car and enjoyed it more than never driving it.

The shops are not helping the matter either, pushing parts to make some $$. These kids come in here and get talked into some $700 cams and $400 springs when a $200 set of regrinds and $80 springs would do just fine.

I just added up the cost of the parts on my car when I went 10's on a stock block last fall. It was about $2000 in parts to added to a car in running condition. There's people that spend more than that on a head and cams for a 16G. :(

Then you get the ones that get the car built and have no money for spare parts, and end up parting it out for pennies on the dollar.
 
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