Anyone prepped for Rally or Rallycross

[LKWTSI]

Dude, that sucks to see you prang your car. Hope you had fun doing it. I can't wait to get my car back up and running. It's going to be a while, but still want to try out the rallyX for size and see if I want to beat up on the thing or stick with the track.
Hope you get it fixed without too much trouble and keep the post alive

 

[aDee]

That was long time ago. It started a new life and became a rallycar

 

[LKWTSI]

That was long time ago. It started a new life and became a rallycar

..just noticed the date on the last photo.

 

[mhuffman]

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I figured i'd post here (and bring it back from the dead) instead of starting a new post.

I picked up a 93 talon ES (4G63NT) as a daily driver but i am using it for rallycross as well with WDCR SCCA at summit point, WV. The car was very fun at the first event. It is almost bone stock except for weight reduction, which is the #1 performance upgrade you can do (besides tires). Left foot braking allows this car to really rotate and even powerslide through the looser corners.

As far as weight reduction, i've kept it mild since it's my daily driver: Tractor battery, removed A/C, removed headliner for helmet clearance, manual 2g DSM seat belts, rear cargo covers, removed all but two speakers (they were crap anyways). I weigh in at right about 2600lb with the spare tire and jack.

I did a whole bunch of maintenance, as finishing the race is more important than being fast. I am running camber bolts maxed in the front and KYB GR2 dampers at all corners.

I am looking to pick up a set of lighter wheels and winter tires for rally use. At this first event in ran on my OEM 205/55-16 all-seasons. I'm looking for size recommendations. I've been considering:

185/70-14
185/65-14
185/60-15
195/60-15

I'm looking at the following tires:
Hankook ipike w409
Firestone winterforce
Cooper weathermaster sc/2
Mastercraft glacier grip
Kelly magna grip and snowtrakker
Various Nokians

For 14" steel wheels: 1g or 2g eclipse or mazda 626
For 14" alloy wheels: 2g eclipse
For 15" steel wheels: Galant
For 15" alloy wheels: Galant and Mazda 626

Any wheel and tire recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

 

[TheMadCheshire]

Holy back from the dead,Batman! The wife and I are using my 92 GSX for rallycross this year. There are actually 4 dsms that come out total: 3 92 GSX and a 91 gst. Running yoko advan ao35s on Infiniti j30 wheels. Rally tires are the way to go if you can swing them. Are you running in mod since you have removed some weight? Might as well get some real rally tires. You will love them. I'd also invest in some suspension as the stock tends to be not up to the task. I'll dig up some picks if I can later.

 

[mhuffman]

Holy back from the dead,Batman! The wife and I are using my 92 GSX for rallycross this year. There are actually 4 dsms that come out total: 3 92 GSX and a 91 gst. Running yoko advan ao35s on Infiniti j30 wheels. Rally tires are the way to go if you can swing them. Are you running in mod since you have removed some weight? Might as well get some real rally tires. You will love them. I'd also invest in some suspension as the stock tends to be not up to the task. I'll dig up some picks if I can later.

Thanks for your feedback- pics would be awesome!

Where did you get your rally tires? What size?
How do they work in mud, grass, gravel, and hardpack?

 

[TheMadCheshire]

Pictures for this season are slim right now as there has only been 1 event and the photog didn't get that many. Here are my wife(501) and me(150) racing my red turd.

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Here are the other 2:

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The gst came out to our practice day but not to the first event.

As for tires, The yokos were bought through a group buy one of the guys put together. He got 8 sets, claimed 2 for himself and the other 6 got bought up by the rest of us. They are a 195/60/15 in a G50. The only real place to get them otherwise is through various tire websites. Be ready to pay 20-30 bucks a tire for shipping.
Last 2 years we ran some Lassas that I purchased from rally-tire.com. Their site died and no one knows if lassas will be available stateside again. Some of the guys got some dMacks from their website directly. I don't have very much feedback on them, but the stage rally guys seem to like them. SubieSports sells bfgs and michelins but I really have no feedback on those.
Since they make rally tires in different hardnesses and tread patterns, the performance depends on those options. The g50s are a gravel medium compound and do pretty well on all our surfaces out here as they are mostly gravel and dirt. The softs(g30) would work well in the colder temps but tend to chunk when it's over 70* out.
We have one venue that is hardpacked and EATS tires. We are going to run some winterforces(choice of most everyone running snow tires- and stay away from weathermasters- they chunked bad and just didn't do very well) on stock 16's for that venue.

 

[mhuffman]

Awesome pics and very useful advice!

How light are the infinity j30 wheels? I wonder how they compare to the gallant and mazda 626 15"alloys...

 

[TheMadCheshire]

Did not weight them prior to tire installation. They feel about as heavy(or light depending on how you look at it) as the stockers. Those and Late 80-late 90s Maxima 15"s(basically the same car as the infiniti) will clear the "bigger" brakes everyone puts on so that was a plus not having to downgrade the front brakes. Unsure of the durability but will find out. The wifey bent 2 steelies last season on the Sentra so we'll definitely see the durability of these this season.
I wanted to find some 15s from a diamante or galant but man are those hard to find at the boneyards. I have a second set of lugnuts for the j30 wheels since they don't use the silly Mitsubishi style lugs.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Good to see some DSM's doing this! I'm doing my first ever rallycross next month with my Evo, I'm quite excited about it!

 

[TheMadCheshire]

Yay Evo! There was a newbie last year who showed up to the first few events in a saturn sl2. All I could think of was taking his alternator. About 3rd event in, showed up in a super low mileage Evo 9. He got fast, and quick. Goodluck sir!

 

[Evo3Codriver]

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Suspension - DMS 50mm gravel versus crappy AGX.

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I've done 100+ stagerallies, mostly as codriver.

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[mhuffman]

Nice pictures Evo3CoDriver. How did you mount those seats in the 2g? Do they sit any hihger or lower than stock?

 

[Evo3Codriver]

Nice pictures Evo3CoDriver. How did you mount those seats in the 2g? Do they sit any hihger or lower than stock?

Its a 1G. Used the seat mounts that came w/ the seats. Height is proably about the same.

Have installed Sparcos in 1G rallycars. Required some modifying the center tunnel to have floor space to keep helmets from the upper door bars.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Where to begin. I am planning doing my first SCCA rallyx in 2 weeks with the AZ Rally Group in Tucson. Up until yesterday I was planning on running the event with my STU Autox Evo VIII. I already ordered a skid plate for it and everything. I wanted to run in stock 4 but I have three mods that push me out of stock, 3"downpipe, K&N cone filter, swift spec-r springs. Generally this would push me into prepared, but they only run stock and modified so I would go straight to modified. When I first started autoxing with my 1g in 2011 I was in street modified because of a few bolt one and couldn't be competitive at all. It sucked. Anyway, have an Evo buddy who would give me stock air box and filter, and I found a stock downpipe locally for cheap. The problem is the springs. I need them for Autox and swapping back and forth (I still have the stockers) takes time and would require an alignment each time. This becomes a hassle and gets expensive.

So yesterday I was going over options while washing the DSM and Evo. I noticed the 1g has several more inches of ground clearece (both are lowered) and the thought popped into my head, if I'm going to run in modified, might as well run a modified car! My DSM is newly gutted and weighs about 2,000-2,100 lbs. my plan was just to drag it with the 14b but honestly I'm losing interest in having a dedicated drag car. I love autoxing the Evo and all I think about is rallyx. Plus I'm thinking all I would have to do, at least at this point, to drag the car is throw the slicks on, even if I start rallying it. I don't see how that would hinder the car at the strip unless I got into rally suspension which isn't likely because of the cost. If anything I'm thinkin just add mud flaps and a skid plate (easily removable) and then just tires. Otherwise the car is setup as a lightweight platform and could do both. This is great for me (wont mess up my DD/Autox Evo, and the DSM gets some more love and attention and actually makes it out of the garage to play).

My 1g is a FWD (the reason i had never considered it for rallyx) so I would be racing in modified 2. Street tires are currently 225/45/17 BFG G-Force T/A's but it can clear as low as 13" rims for a future first specific setup. I don't know what size would be ideal. I know smaller rim, meatier tires but that's all I know at this point. Te car looks stock on the outside with lexan side windows, fiberglass hood, removed crash bars. Inside all that remains is a stripped down dash and center console, front carpet, and a single summit racing seat with a 5 point harness. Seems like a good starting platform. What do you guys think?

 

[mhuffman]

Where to begin. I am planning doing my first SCCA rallyx in 2 weeks with the AZ Rally Group in Tucson. Up until yesterday I was planning on running the event with my STU Autox Evo VIII. I already ordered a skid plate for it and everything. I wanted to run in stock 4 but I have three mods that push me out of stock, 3"downpipe, K&N cone filter, swift spec-r springs. Generally this would push me into prepared, but they only run stock and modified so I would go straight to modified. When I first started autoxing with my 1g in 2011 I was in street modified because of a few bolt one and couldn't be competitive at all. It sucked. Anyway, have an Evo buddy who would give me stock air box and filter, and I found a stock downpipe locally for cheap. The problem is the springs. I need them for Autox and swapping back and forth (I still have the stockers) takes time and would require an alignment each time. This becomes a hassle and gets expensive.

So yesterday I was going over options while washing the DSM and Evo. I noticed the 1g has several more inches of ground clearece (both are lowered) and the thought popped into my head, if I'm going to run in modified, might as well run a modified car! My DSM is newly gutted and weighs about 2,000-2,100 lbs. my plan was just to drag it with the 14b but honestly I'm losing interest in having a dedicated drag car. I love autoxing the Evo and all I think about is rallyx. Plus I'm thinking all I would have to do, at least at this point, to drag the car is throw the slicks on, even if I start rallying it. I don't see how that would hinder the car at the strip unless I got into rally suspension which isn't likely because of the cost. If anything I'm thinkin just add mud flaps and a skid plate (easily removable) and then just tires. Otherwise the car is setup as a lightweight platform and could do both. This is great for me (wont mess up my DD/Autox Evo, and the DSM gets some more love and attention and actually makes it out of the garage to play).

My 1g is a FWD (the reason i had never considered it for rallyx) so I would be racing in modified 2. Street tires are currently 225/45/17 BFG G-Force T/A's but it can clear as low as 13" rims for a future first specific setup. I don't know what size would be ideal. I know smaller rim, meatier tires but that's all I know at this point. Te car looks stock on the outside with lexan side windows, fiberglass hood, removed crash bars. Inside all that remains is a stripped down dash and center console, front carpet, and a single summit racing seat with a 5 point harness. Seems like a good starting platform. What do you guys think?

An EVO is WAY nice to beat up at a rallycross! (just my opinion, i see plenty of STIs out there getting dirty). I don't really worry about being competitive; i'm out there to have fun and to get the most out of the car i can. When i pull times close or better than the AWD turbos, i know i must be doing something right!

One of the reasons i picked up my 1g was because of its sick ground clearance, especially with weight reduction and stock springs. Forget drag- go rallying! Unless you get really into it i would skip the "rally suspension"- save the money for gas tires and entry fees. i'm running KYB GR2/Excel G. Super cheap, super comfy, and lifetime warranty if i blow one out. Handle really well too.

Your light weight will be a huge advantage. For rallyX, i would actually turn the boost down in a FWD (especially if you don't have LSD). The car may actually be faster and easier to control and put power down with less boost. See my above post regarding tires. My first rallyX was on stock 205/55-16 but i picked up some mazda 626 steel 14" wheels with some 185/65-14 snow tires. Tires are always the #1 performance factor (although weight is a huge factor...) in motorsports. You can find plenty of cheap snow tires in 14" sizes and also rally tires.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

An EVO is WAY nice to beat up at a rallycross! (just my opinion, i see plenty of STIs out there getting dirty). I don't really worry about being competitive; i'm out there to have fun and to get the most out of the car i can. When i pull times close or better than the AWD turbos, i know i must be doing something right!

One of the reasons i picked up my 1g was because of its sick ground clearance, especially with weight reduction and stock springs. Forget drag- go rallying! Unless you get really into it i would skip the "rally suspension"- save the money for gas tires and entry fees. i'm running KYB GR2/Excel G. Super cheap, super comfy, and lifetime warranty if i blow one out. Handle really well too.

Your light weight will be a huge advantage. For rallyX, i would actually turn the boost down in a FWD (especially if you don't have LSD). The car may actually be faster and easier to control and put power down with less boost. See my above post regarding tires. My first rallyX was on stock 205/55-16 but i picked up some mazda 626 steel 14" wheels with some 185/65-14 snow tires. Tires are always the #1 performance factor (although weight is a huge factor...) in motorsports. You can find plenty of cheap snow tires in 14" sizes and also rally tires.

I do have a Quafe LSD but I will still be turning the boost down quite a bit. 21 psi on this little 14b makes 1-3 gears worthless on the street. Back when I used to Autox this car I would turn it down to 16psi or so. I have an external tial wastegate so I can actually get the boost as low as I need it by changing the springs. My car is currently on KYB AGX with Eibach Pros. Do you think the softer setting would help on dirt? I agree with you on tires. I've done enough racing over the years to understand that that its not how much power you make, but how you put it to the ground and how you can control it. What I don't know yet is how width comes into play for rallycross. I know from street/drag/Autox, you want the widest tires you can get for that constant patch on the pavement. How about for dirt?

Just yesterday I purchased my third Mitsubishi, a 2000 Montero Sport 3.0 4x4, for dirt cheap. I needed something that I can tow my 1g to Arizona with. It runs pretty good but needs some TLC. My mission is to get this vehicle ready to tow my 1g 5 hours away to Tucson, AZ in just 11 days. It's quite an undertaking. I'll be installing a tow hitch, flushing all the fluids, and doing an extensive tune up.

 

[mhuffman]

I like stock springs because with the extra ground clearance i am less likely to bottom out and the softer ride makes me "feel" like the car is getting less beat up! On a smooth track, i bet the prokit would be faster than stock. On a very bumpy course, who knows?

I'm new to rally and don't have any personal experience on tire size (yet), but i have heard many say they went faster on narrower tires. But in rally, there are so many variables to consider... so many potential track conditions (grass, dirt, mud, packed clay, snow). I don't know if we can generalize that a certain width works better for everything. In our loose dirt and gravel and mud conditions, the guys with narrow tires seem to go faster because the tire is able to penetrate down the the grip. I'm going from 205 to 185 width for the next event so i will report back.

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some people have even speculated that a wide all-season or even summer tire would perform best on packed clay, which becomes almost like asphalt! We run on a course that is mainly packed clay, but there are still loose sections so it's a compromise.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I like stock springs because with the extra ground clearance i am less likely to bottom out and the softer ride makes me "feel" like the car is getting less beat up! On a smooth track, i bet the prokit would be faster than stock. On a very bumpy course, who knows?

I'm new to rally and don't have any personal experience on tire size (yet), but i have heard many say they went faster on narrower tires. But in rally, there are so many variables to consider... so many potential track conditions (grass, dirt, mud, packed clay, snow). I don't know if we can generalize that a certain width works better for everything. In our loose dirt and gravel and mud conditions, the guys with narrow tires seem to go faster because the tire is able to penetrate down the the grip. I'm going from 205 to 185 width for the next event so i will report back.

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some people have even speculated that a wide all-season or even summer tire would perform best on packed clay, which becomes almost like asphalt! We run on a course that is mainly packed clay, but there are still loose sections so it's a compromise.

Yes, lots of variables as far as surfaces. I know where I will be racing in Arizona it's loose dirt/sand/mud because they use a water truck. I don't have to worry about snow! Lol. Also the course looks pretty flat, here is a vid.

http://youtu.be/zHrDR5-AjdM

 

[TheMadCheshire]

Width doesn't seem like a very big variable at our events. Pretty much everyone runs 195/65/15s in some form of a real rally tire. Even the Prepared guys who are the fastest run them. I was using narrow snows(155/80/13) on the sentra when we were using it at first, made the switch to rally tires in 165/70/14 and wow did they make a huge difference. Maybe there is a point to "too narrow" for snow tires. This was on a 1.6 boosted(yes I put a turbo on it) super lightweight car(estimated about 2200 lbs). I had an open diff and it sure showed.

As for springs, I used a very stiff spring setup with dampers to match(350 fronts and 300 rears with bilstein inserts) and felt it was a little too stiff. Found the car would bounce around the course and sometimes had a hard time putting power down.
If I were to do it again,I'd change to a 300 front and 225 rear set up. Maybe even a 275 fronts.

This season we splurged on some gravel spec ksports which are stiff. But have dampers to match. The only other guy who runs them doesn't like how they work at the lower rx speeds but his are set up for stage rally( faster speeds). I have the springs and valving matched to the lower speeds we see at rx. Sunday is the next event and I shall report back with how they do on a more packed dirt surface.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Width doesn't seem like a very big variable at our events. Pretty much everyone runs 195/65/15s in some form of a real rally tire. Even the Prepared guys who are the fastest run them. I was using narrow snows(155/80/13) on the sentra when we were using it at first, made the switch to rally tires in 165/70/14 and wow did they make a huge difference. Maybe there is a point to "too narrow" for snow tires. This was on a 1.6 boosted(yes I put a turbo on it) super lightweight car(estimated about 2200 lbs). I had an open diff and it sure showed.

As for springs, I used a very stiff spring setup with dampers to match(350 fronts and 300 rears with bilstein inserts) and felt it was a little too stiff. Found the car would bounce around the course and sometimes had a hard time putting power down.
If I were to do it again,I'd change to a 300 front and 225 rear set up. Maybe even a 275 fronts.

This season we splurged on some gravel spec ksports which are stiff. But have dampers to match. The only other guy who runs them doesn't like how they work at the lower rx speeds but his are set up for stage rally( faster speeds). I have the springs and valving matched to the lower speeds we see at rx. Sunday is the next event and I shall report back with how they do on a more packed dirt surface.

Awesome! Let us know how it goes!!

Just a update on my situation... Since I decided to use the 1g for the rallyx I needed a way to tow it as it is now longer insured or registered (lexan windows, no crash bars anywhere, 1 seat, open exhaust). 4 days ago I bought a 2000 Montero Sport which ran but needed some TLC (maintenance). I decided to do a timing belt job/water pump/plugs and wires/new battery/valve cover gaskets/transmission flush and filter/fuel filter/etc. I have been spending every spare moment working on getting this vehicle ready to tow my 1g 5 hours away and make it back. I have 7 days left before we leave for Tucson and I'm currently on schedule. Everything is torn down and the new parts are just staring to go on. I only get about 4 hours per day to work on it because I don't have a day off until next Friday, which is the day we leave for Tucson!

 

[Tyeler18]

Awesome! Let us know how it goes!!

Just a update on my situation... Since I decided to use the 1g for the rallyx I needed a way to tow it as it is now longer insured or registered (lexan windows, no crash bars anywhere, 1 seat, open exhaust). 4 days ago I bought a 2000 Montero Sport which ran but needed some TLC (maintenance). I decided to do a timing belt job/water pump/plugs and wires/new battery/valve cover gaskets/transmission flush and filter/fuel filter/etc. I have been spending every spare moment working on getting this vehicle ready to tow my 1g 5 hours away and make it back. I have 7 days left before we leave for Tucson and I'm currently on schedule. Everything is torn down and the new parts are just staring to go on. I only get about 4 hours per day to work on it because I don't have a day off until next Friday, which is the day we leave for Tucson!

You'll have to let me know when you get down there. I'm about 40 minutes from the course, but have yet to check it out. I was hoping to have my GVR4 ready for this year but both the 1g and galant won't be making it, however, I'll probably stop down to spectate!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

You'll have to let me know when you get down there. I'm about 40 minutes from the course, but have yet to check it out. I was hoping to have my GVR4 ready for this year but both the 1g and galant won't be making it, however, I'll probably stop down to spectate!

Sure man! We are heading on there next Friday, the Rallyx on Saturday the 20th. If you're there come say hi!

For those that have Rallx'd before, how critical is power steering? I don't know if I'll have time, but I can try to throw it back on before heading out there.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I reinstalled the power steering system last night and took her out from some practice today. All I can say is the 1g is a blast on dirt! I can't wait for the race this weekend!!!!

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[TheMadCheshire]

Power steering isn't super critical for rx but one thing for sure, fix the high rpm cutout if you decide to use it. Its super annoying having assist then having it cut out for that tight turn at the top of 1st. Nothing a little muscle can't fix but its still annoying.
As for this past weekend, had a blast. I got a DNF do to my power transistor deciding to come unplugged on one of my runs. A ziptie fixed that problem for the rest of the day. Decided just to have fun and did most of the turns sideways which is neither fast nor productive but man is it fun. The wifey got 10th with a very terrible first run. If it wasn't for the DNF I'm confident I would have gotten atleast 6th behind all the veterans.
The winterforces(205/55/16) did great on the hard packed surface. Seeing as though I've only driven the car twice at rx, I'm sure someone with more experience would have been able to get even more out of the tires. I was definitely driving like I had rally tires and well.... that just doesn't work with snows.
Can't wait for the next event where the dirt is very soft and loose.
Only have one photog this event. Will post picks later. There was just mine and 1 other dsm. Someone brought out their 1.5l colt. His 63 awd swap is being collected at this moment.