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2G 7bolt swap to 6bolt ?s

Posted by AntmanAndLittleDi, Jul 14, 2018

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  1. AntmanAndLittleDi

    AntmanAndLittleDi Proven Member

    129
    15
    Joined Nov 12, 2014
    Russell, Kansas
    We just experienced a little piston ring failure on our 2g. (I think, not 100% sure) The car still runs, but is putting oil onto #4 spark plug. While driving around in the truck having a family meeting on the topic, we saw a gutted 1g on a trailer behind a shop. Talked to the owner & he said "Take it, just bring my trailer back." Motor has a rod knock & trans has a gear out, but it's an awd car. Seeing as this 1g has the interior stripped and has been modified for a track car (roll caged, doors welded shut, no glass), we thought about rebuilding the motor and mating it inside of our existing setup. Just the motor. We'd like to keep the 2g head (unless the 1g is preferred?) and as much other 2g as possible. Are there any limitations to this idea? Like certain sensors or water pump? Anything that I'm not thinking of? As a side note the end hp range that we'd like to accomplish is 550, so if there's anything on this 1g that'll work better than it's 2g counterpart (like the throttle body), please let me know. For the beginning I'd like to just build the motor heavy and add on around it down the road. I'm picturing it as being a walk in the park, so don't burst my bubble too hard LOL. All comments and ideas are welcome, but keep in mind I haven't had time to look into 1g info just yet (only owned one for an hour LOL).
     

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    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    16g   automatic
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  2. nismojones

    nismojones Proven Member

    38
    3
    Joined Jan 10, 2008
    Metro Detroit, Michigan
    Why not take it all? Shell and motor/trans! If I were you I’d test to determine 100% what the oil issue is.
     
  3. AntmanAndLittleDi

    AntmanAndLittleDi Proven Member

    129
    15
    Joined Nov 12, 2014
    Russell, Kansas
    We're taking it all, just not using it all. The talon is awd and manual trans whereas ours is fwd and auto trans. Not really looking to do an awd conversion, or manual conversion (the wife can't drive stick, but she's a great driver so I refuse to take that from her). As for our 2g oil problem, we'll get to it eventually. Everything just fell in place so quickly with this 1g it was hard to say no. Two days ago we saw oil on #4 plug, today we found a free 1g, tomorrow with luck we'll have the junk 3g out and the 1g in. We didn't tear into the 2g because it's still running and moving, which makes life grand when you have 1 driveway and only a 1 car garage, but own 3 vehicles (soon to be 4) and someone else's car all in the way.
    BTW, anyone want a cheap 3g for parts? LOL
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    16g   automatic
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  4. tametalon92

    tametalon92 Proven Member

    1,438
    278
    Joined Jan 5, 2012
    Rathdrum, Idaho
    If I could, I'd snag both the 3g and 1g shell from you, haha.

    GL with the 6 bolt swap , if you search that underlined section you'll have tons of threads and info.

    Long story short, you can use the 7 bolt head, but need to match the head stud holes to the 6 bolt studs/bolts (7 bolt- 11mm, 6 bolt- 12mm), and figure out a crank trigger setup for the 6 bolt block. Kiggly crank trigger may be the ticket there.

    There's more info out there for the other parts, but that will get you started to search.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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    AntmanAndLittleDi likes this.
  5. spyderdrifter

    spyderdrifter Supporting Member

    3,178
    251
    Joined Jul 11, 2009
    Colorado Springs, Colorado
    Go with the 6 bolt block, 2g head combo. You'll have to drill the head bolt holes in the head just a bit larger since you'll have to use 6 bolt head bolts. All parts attached to the block will be 6 bolt part, minus the engine mount (2g modified), and I've always used the 2g main water pipe and thermostat housing. You'll have to be a little creative for turbo water lines, but that's not hard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
    My DSM:
    1996 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Autocross Build

    16g   manual
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST (sold)

    Street Build

    T28   manual
    1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX (sold)

    16g   manual
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  6. tametalon92

    tametalon92 Proven Member

    1,438
    278
    Joined Jan 5, 2012
    Rathdrum, Idaho
    Also, since you're auto and going to 6 bolt, you may need kigglys 6 bolt swap kit for that. Not sure on auto fwd differences if any exactly, but that's one more detail.
     
    My DSM:
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

      manual
    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD

    Street Build

    14b   manual
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  7. AntmanAndLittleDi

    AntmanAndLittleDi Proven Member

    129
    15
    Joined Nov 12, 2014
    Russell, Kansas
    I got an email in to Kiggly, waiting for a reply. I just basically told them what I have & what I want to accomplish. Came back here to make an update post and write down some more sponsor names so I can get more emails out. And yea, that search for 6 bolt swap, I'm still reading through the results. It's a Lot LOL. Thanks for the help.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    16g   automatic
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  8. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    944
    180
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Depends on your plans, if you plan to go all out on power go with the 6 bolt head. Use all 2g sensors and motor mounts other than the crank and cam sensor, instead use the 1g cas to provide both to the ecu, if you have a 95 or 96 2g you will need to swap the coil wires and the injector pins.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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  9. AntmanAndLittleDi

    AntmanAndLittleDi Proven Member

    129
    15
    Joined Nov 12, 2014
    Russell, Kansas
    Planning on stopping around the 550hp mark, but probably still leave some wiggle room so we aren't stressing anything at that point. And we have a 99 2g.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    16g   automatic
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  10. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    944
    180
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    Then the 1g cas will work fine.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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  11. AntmanAndLittleDi

    AntmanAndLittleDi Proven Member

    129
    15
    Joined Nov 12, 2014
    Russell, Kansas
    Is there a strategy between using 1g or 2g head? Other than the need to modify the holes on the 2g head to match the 1g block.
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    16g   automatic
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  12. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

    944
    180
    Joined Dec 9, 2010
    wampum, Pennsylvania
    The 1g has larger ports for overall more flow, the 2g has smaller ports for better low end velocity.
     
    My DSM:
    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Drag Race Build

    GT42   manual
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    AntmanAndLittleDi likes this.
  13. AntmanAndLittleDi

    AntmanAndLittleDi Proven Member

    129
    15
    Joined Nov 12, 2014
    Russell, Kansas
    Think we're going with 1g head and block. Did some snooping on other builds & like seeing lots of them keeping the stock crank for high hp setups. I'm a little torn between the compression rate goal though. If stock 1g is 7.8 and stock 2g is 8.5, but the most common rebuilt is 9.1, I'm not 100% sure on any of them. Mainly because I'm wanting to rely on boost/fuel to increase the hp down the road whenever 550hp gets boring LOL. I looked into Jackson Auto Machine and like the 2 stage block setup with the 3 stage head setup. Not to mention how easy & somewhat cheap you can find the individual parts for. This brings me back to the CR choice, because all the available parts are only $20-$30 different from 8.5:1 to 9.1:1. (There are Very little parts available for a built 7.8:1 motor, mostly stock applications.) I like the idea of the 9.1 having a little more giddy-up when not in boost, but am perfectly fine with the idea of being a little sluggish on the start in favor of having more boost capabilities later on as is with the 8.5:1. Is there really that much of a difference between the two though? Am I going to notice a difference while putting around town at 550hp in a 8.5cr and wish I had 9.1cr? Or get bored with 550hp, open it up to 750hp at 9.1cr and wish I had 8.5cr? Just trying to get a feel for things before I set my mind on one thing or another. As a side note, I did call the local airport and got the ok through the city to purchase aviation fuel, but it has to be in a 55gal drum when I get it & not directly into an automobile. They have two fuels on hand here, one at 146 octane and the other at 162 octane. Dilute that with some regular gas, probably some extra lubricant, and should be good to go! Still waiting for the ethanol plant to call me back about buying straight ethanol from them. Hehehe
     
    My DSM:
    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST

    Road Race Build

    16g   automatic
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  14. familyMAN

    familyMAN Proven Member

    164
    105
    Joined Dec 6, 2011
    Saint Anthony, Indiana
    why not just build your 7 bolt? Sounds like either one need rebuilt anyway and you already said you aren't planning on doing an awd conversion. Sounds like needless work to go 6 bolt. I probably have some stock pistons and rods laying around if that's all you need. While you are in there, knock the oil squirters out, drill and tap for plugs and you are good to go.
     
    My DSM:

    Street Build

    9.65 @ 143 MPH
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  15. Boomdeeze

    Boomdeeze Proven Member

    1,450
    176
    Joined Jul 5, 2009
    Independence, Minnesota
    The 2g head has better flow and the 1g head moves more volume.

    Here is a good read to back the 2g head, kiggly even has a comment in there supporting the 2g head at 1100hp:

    http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-head-vs-2g-head.390717/
     
    My DSM:
    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX

    Street Build

    10.793 @ 128.98 MPH
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