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New clutch, New slave and master, car won't go into gear/soft pedal

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lowered02eclipse

Probationary Member
9
0
Dec 22, 2017
sun city, California
Im pretty stuck right now and haven't got help from the 3g eclipse eclipse forum.

I have an 02 eclipse rs 4g64

I recently installed an ACT Mb1-xtss clutch and act throw out bearing. I can't put the car in gear while running. I didn't put the disc in the wrong way as I had a reference picture that it was in the right way.

I did get the stock flywheel turned for the first time and not sure how much they took off.

I've replaced master and slave cylinder and checked for leaks through the lines and found nothing.

I bled the slave using a tube to a bottle and the fluid had no air bubbles so im lost.

It seems like the clutch fork isn't pushing the pressure plates fingers enough to disengage the clutch.

The last clutch I had installed was an exedy and it was also very squishy pedal feel but I was able to drive it around at least. The only option right now that I have is getting a longer slave cylinder rod? And help would definitely be appreciated.
 
Your hydraulics are likely not completely bled even though you say you see no bubbles. Did you bench bleed the new master? Push the slave all the way into its bore and bleed with it in that position. You'll need an assistant. The piston will still try and push so be mindful of that.
 
Do not fall for the extended slave rod trick. It is a bandaid fix that will preload the pressure plate. It will cause more problems down the road.

I also am betting the hydraulics are not completely bleed. I have had cars that took a long time to completely bleed. I had to pump the clutch 50 or 100 times and then rebleed it .
 
Also hopefully when you had the flywheel machined it was properly stepped, you might be surprised to find out how many shops dont do this.
 
Your hydraulics are likely not completely bled even though you say you see no bubbles. Did you bench bleed the new master? Push the slave all the way into its bore and bleed with it in that position. You'll need an assistant. The piston will still try and push so be mindful of that.

At the ends of the bleed I pushed in the slave as much as I could, opened the bleeder and let the rod go and it sucked up a stream of fluid in the line with no air. I also tried a vaccum bleeder and pedal felt the same before I tried a new line and got a clear stream quote fast actually.

Forgot to mention that I had a rod hold the pedal down while I cracked the bleeder.

I did try bench bleeding the master before putting it in, also I adjusted the pedal under the dash as high as I can get the pedal for the sake of bleeding.
 
I bled the slave using a tube to a bottle and the fluid had no air bubbles so im lost.
Did the tube has a one-way check valve? If not, it's not completely bled.

Do not fall for the extended slave rod trick. It is a bandaid fix that will preload the pressure plate. It will cause more problems down the road.
Agree. More unnecessary side load on crank and just shorten the life of throw out bearing.
 
Did the tube has a one-way check valve? If not, it's not completely bled.


Agree. More unnecessary side load on crank and just shorten the life of throw out bearing.



Have any thoughts about using an oil can to the bleeder trick?
If anything I'm hoping to be able to get the car mobile so I can get to a shop that can maybe pressure bleed the system since I'm having alot of trouble,thats why I got the extended rod to be honest.
 
Have any thoughts about using an oil can to the bleeder trick?
If anything I'm hoping to be able to get the car mobile so I can get to a shop that can maybe pressure bleed the system since I'm having alot of trouble,thats why I got the extended rod to be honest.
All methods, if everything is done properly, it should work. But I prefer to pump the pedal many times.

I don't know if this helps you. From my experience, long time ago when I had a clutch dragging issue at high RPM (all cylinders were new from Mitsubishi, bled perfectly, etc etc. everything was done but didn't solve the issue. even tried the extended rod). At the last, I replaced the clutch line (master to slave) and removed the restrictor in slave cylinder. and that dramatically made the clutch engagement point closer. After that I even didn't need to max out the master cylinder's rod.
 
All methods, if everything is done properly, it should work. But I prefer to pump the pedal many times.

I don't know if this helps you. From my experience, long time ago when I had a clutch dragging issue at high RPM (all cylinders were new from Mitsubishi, bled perfectly, etc etc. everything was done but didn't solve the issue. even tried the extended rod). At the last, I replaced the clutch line (master to slave) and removed the restrictor in slave cylinder. and that dramatically made the clutch engagement point closer. After that I even didn't need to max out the master cylinder's rod.

I have the ss line ordered from summit racing as of now.
Would I just keep bleeding the slave even If I'm getting a solid stream? and just keep going until the pedal gets harder?
 
Also hopefully when you had the flywheel machined it was properly stepped, you might be surprised to find out how many shops dont do this.
Very true. If you can't find a problem with they hydraulics, you may want to check the step on the fly wheel

The step height is critical to proper clutch operation. Too little (shallow) and the clutch will hold power great but it will have trouble releasing. You wont have enough room for the pressure plate to fully retract.
quoted from
RRE's DSM Flywheel and Clutch Info


this is the most recent flywheel specs i could find, it doesn't have your exact vehicle listed but i believe the one highlighted is the correct step (same as on the 4g63)
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================================


here is the pedal adjustment info for your car:
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Thank you very much guys for all the info!

So far I'm waiting for another slave cylinder to come in the mail and I'll be using exedy instead of duralast since the seal failed on the duralast one.

I also have a one way check valve I got from Amazon for when I bleed the clutch again.

With this check valve I can leave the bleeder open while I pump the air out I assume?
 
With this check valve I can leave the bleeder open while I pump the air out I assume?
I don't know which one-way check valve you got. but yes, the one-way check valve is for that. Not to suck the air back when you pump the pedal without an assistant to close the bleed nipple.
 
Update! : still not going well.

New slave cylinder installed(exedy) along with ss line replacing the rubber one by the trans

one way check valve with tube to bleeder and bottle and still wouldnt go into gear. I put the car on jackstands and was able to actually going into first with the car on. Tried 2nd gear and a tiny grind gets in there but all the others are no bueno.

All the air bubbles went up to the check valve and then from the check valve to the container.

I also tried the extended push rod and same thing.

I put back the original push rod and took a video of how much the clutch fork moves and it moved about 1/2 inch so my guess is maybe wrong clutch?

I guess I'll look for an oe clutch smh. Anymore input is greatly appreciated.

First time I ever rebuilt an engine and it starts up great but I can't even drive the damn thing :(
 
Your symptoms sound like mine.

There is another possible screwup by the shop that did the flywheel:
It's not flat. They cut it on a bevel. It's now like a very shallow cone. You would think this would be a no-brainer for a shop, but apparently not. (It slopes down in the center, so it's not possible to see or measure this while on the car. It would be highly unusual to find it cut the opposite way, due to the way a lathe works.)
Threw in a new oem clutch set, and had the flywheel from my spare engine surfaced at the parts store recommended shop. Never occurred to me to check it for flatness. Replaced the slave cylinder, no difference. Pressed for time, I pulled the new clutch, along with the flywheel, and put the entire original setup back in. Fortunately I yanked that flywheel, since in my car, you have to pull the engine to get the trans out ('91AWD Talon). Returned the clutch assy as defective. Later discovered the flywheel wasn't flat. Not even close.
Took a fair amount of restraint to keep from tossing it through that shop's window. Idiot.
 
Your symptoms sound like mine.

There is another possible screwup by the shop that did the flywheel:
It's not flat. They cut it on a bevel. It's now like a very shallow cone. You would think this would be a no-brainer for a shop, but apparently not. (It slopes down in the center, so it's not possible to see or measure this while on the car. It would be highly unusual to find it cut the opposite way, due to the way a lathe works.)
Threw in a new oem clutch set, and had the flywheel from my spare engine surfaced at the parts store recommended shop. Never occurred to me to check it for flatness. Replaced the slave cylinder, no difference. Pressed for time, I pulled the new clutch, along with the flywheel, and put the entire original setup back in. Fortunately I yanked that flywheel, since in my car, you have to pull the engine to get the trans out ('91AWD Talon). Returned the clutch assy as defective. Later discovered the flywheel wasn't flat. Not even close.
Took a fair amount of restraint to keep from tossing it through that shop's window. Idiot.
I would think it's very difficult to mess this up. Lathes do not move like that. I do not know if a 3rd gen runs a flat flywheel or stepped. Could make a difference. Also pull the engine? Why? 27 years and tons of awd trans drops tells me otherwise.
 
Im pretty stuck right now and haven't got help from the 3g eclipse eclipse forum.

I have an 02 eclipse rs 4g64

I recently installed an ACT Mb1-xtss clutch and act throw out bearing. I can't put the car in gear while running. I didn't put the disc in the wrong way as I had a reference picture that it was in the right way.

I did get the stock flywheel turned for the first time and not sure how much they took off.

I've replaced master and slave cylinder and checked for leaks through the lines and found nothing.

I bled the slave using a tube to a bottle and the fluid had no air bubbles so im lost.

It seems like the clutch fork isn't pushing the pressure plates fingers enough to disengage the clutch.

The last clutch I had installed was an exedy and it was also very squishy pedal feel but I was able to drive it around at least. The only option right now that I have is getting a longer slave cylinder rod? And help would definitely be appreciated.
Just looked. Apparently 3rd gen does have a stepped flywheel. Did you check the step height after the machine work? ALWAYS double check machine work. If shop gets offended you're checking then it's the wrong shop. A good shop will show you themselves if you ask.
 
Just looked. Apparently 3rd gen does have a stepped flywheel. Did you check the step height after the machine work? ALWAYS double check machine work. If shop gets offended you're checking then it's the wrong shop. A good shop will show you themselves if you ask.

Before I go pick up another flywheel could these symptoms be from the wrong friction disk?

I have a picture of the clutch kit(keep in mind I did NOT get this kit from act,but a private seller on Craigslist) and the TOB and pressure plate model numbers match up to what act site says comes in the kit for my car but I'm having trouble finding the matching numbers from the friction disk which leads me to believes I possibly have the wrong friction disk.
 
I would think it's very difficult to mess this up. Lathes do not move like that. I do not know if a 3rd gen runs a flat flywheel or stepped. Could make a difference. Also pull the engine? Why? 27 years and tons of awd trans drops tells me otherwise.

YES, they DO move like that. How do you think they cut a taper on a lathe? I have a vague recollection that old dedicated flywheel cutters didn't have that capability. They were designed to cut a flat perpendicular surface and had no other utility. When you get into recessed surfaces, you have to have multiple movement capability for the tool holder, and they typically have rotation bases, which is how you end up with taper cutting ability. In my case, he didn't check his settings. Laying a straight edge across the flywheel shows a very visible taper.

There was no way my trans would come out without moving the engine. Basically, it had to be tilted down at the trans end to clear the subframe/body. I spent days trying to finesse that trans out of there. Could not separate them far enough to get the shaft out of the clutch. (At some point, I read a post on here that commented that the early '91 awd had a clearance problem in this regard, and there was a factory change made to fix it.)

Bought an engine hoist and pulled them totally out. When the clutch problem occurred, I disconnected as little as possible, and just lifted it far enough to tilt the trans down. (BTW, a 1.5 ton hoist doesn't have enough reach without removing the bumper assembly.) Is it possible that I missed some combination of motor mount removal that would have given me the body clearance it needed? Perhaps. (My '91FWD was a piece of cake when it ate the trans.) I'm not as sharp as I once was, due to a brain injury, so I no longer claim to be an expert. I stopped turning wrenches for a living in the vehicle fields around '77 (cars, bikes, and boats).
 
Where I'm at they use cupped stone wheels for surfacing flywheels, pull the dowels and do the same to the grind the step offset to spec.
I never had a problem pulling the transmission on my 91 AWD Talon with the engine in, they're all a tight fit though.
 
"I never had a problem pulling the transmission on my 91 AWD Talon with the engine in, they're all a tight fit though."
*************
That's what I kept reading, but it was hitting solid parts of the car, and no amount of rotation and prying would get the trans out of the clutch. I tried unbolting more of the motormounts with the pan sitting on a floorjack, but still couldn't seem to generate enough vertical pitch to clear the body. Had my roommate assisting, and he didn't see anything I might have overlooked.

Did my first trans swap in '68. Did some in blinding snowstorms in those early years. This was the worst one I can recall. And then I had to repeat it due to bad shop work, and my not bothering to check his workmanship. sheesh
 
So just got the trans off the engine to check the model number of the friction disk and its the correct one according to their site. I couldn't see the number correctly from the picture.

On the flywheel both the step where the pressure plate screws in to is machined and so is the context point of the clutch. Then again I have no idea how much but the clutch wasn't bad when u brought it in so it shouldnt be too much.

I have 2 plates that are lined up, one in front of the flywheel and one sitting behind between crank and fly wheel as what the manual states.

I guess I'll be getting an exedy replacement soon.
Anyone have anymore tips/ideas? Is highly appreciated.
 
So just got the trans off the engine to check the model number of the friction disk and its the correct one according to their site. I couldn't see the number correctly from the picture.

On the flywheel both the step where the pressure plate screws in to is machined and so is the context point of the clutch. Then again I have no idea how much but the clutch wasn't bad when u brought it in so it shouldnt be too much.

I have 2 plates that are lined up, one in front of the flywheel and one sitting behind between crank and fly wheel as what the manual states.

I guess I'll be getting an exedy replacement soon.
Anyone have anymore tips/ideas? Is highly appreciated.
A visual wont cut it. You need to measure the step height.
 
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