ETA32 Should I be dissappointed in my Dyno numbers? Also, fuel ?

tqlla · Dec 31, 2002

Hi all, I have a 1999 Mitsu GSX. I just went to the dyno today. After tuning the car, here are my Fuel Settings.

-38 -28 1k
-36 -28 2k
-40 -34 3k
-40 -40 3.5k
-40 -40 4k
-34 -48 5k
-34 -48 6k
-34 -49 7k

My first question, why are the settings sooo low. I spoke with Mike and he says it still runs rich? I dont understand.

Here are my dyno results.
@16psi 234.9HP 234.7TQ
@18psi 266.0HP 257.4TQ

Should I be dissappointed? Maybe I am just used to seeing numbers from Vr-4s(330 on stock Turbos) and NA-T 3000GTs(250 with low boost on 9Bs). Cause I am a little dissappointed.

ETE32 T3/T4 turbo
3inch metal intake
Accel 8mm wires
HKS Iridium plugs -.028
660cc injectors
Greddy FMIC
Alum radiator
Apexi SAFC
Hi flow fuel Pump
HKS EVC IV
Greddy EGT Guag
Greddy Boost Guage
Greddy S BOV
3 inch N1 exhaust
EVO o2 sensor housing

larryd · Dec 31, 2002

which do you have, the ETE32 or ETA32?

tqlla · Dec 31, 2002

ETE32, what boost levels should I run?

2-0turbo · Dec 31, 2002

Why did you only run 18 psi boost? This is part of your problem. That 50-trim loves (did I say loves?) loves boost. 18 psi is loafing for that thing--I can do 18 psi on a 14B. Hell, I've run 22 psi at the track on race gas on the stock 14B. Do you have ARP studs? If not, get them and crank the boost another 10 psi. Were these pulls on pump gas or race gas?

Who is Mike and why does he say you run rich? Wideband? Your SAFC settings seem a bit on the lean side if you ask me. Do I read your sig right that you have a sheet metal intake too? Looks like you have some good equipment, just need to crank the boost up and do some tuning.

CBgst · Dec 31, 2002

Those numbers do seem a bit low. How much timing are you getting

tqlla · Dec 31, 2002

THe motor is stock, so Mike didnt want to push it too hard. Someone suggested I get an AFPR. to help lean the car out, because of my 255Lph pump and 660s.

As for timing, I dont know how to get those numbers. And I forgot to get AF from AAM.

About the intake, I have the metal pipe, that leads to the turbo. Also I have purchased a blitz metal intake from my friend JB, but I told him he can use it till he gets the AEM CPU for his 3000GT

TRBOTSI · Jan 1, 2003

I assume the runs were on pump gas with such little boost. 50 trims have put down 400+ whp on pump so yeah, your numbers suck. Take the car to somone who knows what they're doing and have it tuned...A shame to have all that money invested and have T25 hp numbers....

nigma · Jan 1, 2003

SAFC fuel setings dont seem to be lean for me... you have upgraded your injectors to 50% larger flow ones....
so you should be getting 50% more with them and actualy you should lean down 50 to get stock injected fuel amounts

oh.. and dont forget to check your actual base fuel preasure (it is = actual fuel rail preasure - manifold preasure) if it is > then it is supposed to be then you are overruning your fuel preasure regulator with way to good fuel pump :]

TRBOTSI · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by nigma

so you should be getting 50% more with them and actualy you should lean down 50 to get stock injected fuel amounts

That's not how it works, the ecu still sees a certain amount of air and adds fuel accordingly, no matter what injectors you have.

tqlla · Jan 1, 2003

So how much boost should I run?

About the tuning, I just put the car together, so AAM didnt want to push the car too much since the car barely ran on the way up there. Also THE car was on an AWD dyno, so the numbers are going to be lower.

1_vicious_gsx · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by 2-0turbo
Why did you only run 18 psi boost? This is part of your problem. That 50-trim loves (did I say loves?) loves boost. 18 psi is loafing for that thing--I can do 18 psi on a 14B. Hell, I've run 22 psi at the track on race gas on the stock 14B. Do you have ARP studs? If not, get them and crank the boost another 10 psi. Were these pulls on pump gas or race gas?

Be carefull with that amount of boost (28psi). You are taking a big chance on those stock rods (you didn't mention any shortblock mods). Can you say BOOM? Don't even think about it if you still have the stock head bolts installed.

2-0turbo · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by 1_vicious_gsx

Be carefull with that amount of boost (28psi). You are taking a big chance on those stock rods (you didn't mention any shortblock mods). Can you say BOOM? Don't even think about it if you still have the stock head bolts installed.

Yeah, 28 PSI might be a bit much. I forgot about the smaller rods on the 7-bolt motors. And I wouldn't run this kind of boost on stock head bolts either, and mine are stronger. I am going to install ARP studs on my car (without removing the head

) and will limit myself to 24/25 psi. Hopefully the head gasket will hold together.

Nigma, you are probably right on the SAFC settings. My 1G ownership shows through. I am doing 2G MAS with SAFC and my settings are not that lean. I end up cutting the fuel close to 50% for injectors then adding 22% more in for 2G MAS.

1_vicious_gsx · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by 2-0turbo

Yeah, 28 PSI might be a bit much. I forgot about the smaller rods on the 7-bolt motors. And I wouldn't run this kind of boost on stock head bolts either, and mine are stronger. I am going to install ARP studs on my car (without removing the head ) and will limit myself to 24/25 psi. Hopefully the head gasket will hold together.

If you are going to remove the head bolts, why not just lift the head, install a new Mitsu steel shim head gasket and be done with it?

2-0turbo · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by 1_vicious_gsx

If you are going to remove the head bolts, why not just lift the head, install a new Mitsu steel shim head gasket and be done with it?

Because I am going to do them one at a time. I don't really want to pull the head--that turns into a lot of work. I'll go with the ARP's and have fun for a while. If it blows, THEN I'll replace it, have check block/head for flatness, machine as necessary and replace with a new gasket.

2-0turbo · Jan 1, 2003

Sorry, this thread has been totally hijacked. : )

1_vicious_gsx · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by 2-0turbo

Because I am going to do them one at a time. I don't really want to pull the head--that turns into a lot of work. I'll go with the ARP's and have fun for a while. If it blows, THEN I'll replace it, have check block/head for flatness, machine as necessary and replace with a new gasket.

You don't have to take it off completely, just lift it up, remove old gasket, make sure both surfaces are clean, install new steel shim gasket, set head back down and install ARP's.

1_vicious_gsx · Jan 1, 2003

Oh yeah, definately hijacked, SORRY OMG

.

tqlla · Jan 1, 2003

Damn, thread jackers. =) So these ARP studs. Is there a faq on how to change them. How hard is it to do? My motor is a big weakness. What boost should I run with my stock internal motor?

I really need to learn about this car, cause I just jumped in from a lightly modded NA to rebuilding a GSX with a Big turbo. I can not even tune the AFC by myself(I know how to change settings, but I dont know why I change them)

1_vicious_gsx · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by tqlla
Damn, thread jackers. =) So these ARP studs. Is there a faq on how to change them. How hard is it to do? My motor is a big weakness. What boost should I run with my stock internal motor?

I really need to learn about this car, cause I just jumped in from a lightly modded NA to rebuilding a GSX with a Big turbo. I can not even tune the AFC by myself(I know how to change settings, but I dont know why I change them)

Stock headbolts can hold about 24psi, as long as you are not allowing detonation. The bottom end can hold the same. If you go higher on the stock bottom end you start pushing the limits. I've heard of people running 28-30psi on the stock bottom end, but eventually they gave out.

To tune the S-AFC correctly you need to be able to read the front O2 sensor. You can use a data logger or get an external digital O2 meter that can be tied into the O2 sensor output. I installed this digital O2 meter on my car, but I got the square one. I also data log with my DSMLink, but this will work fine for you. The S-FAC basically intercepts & modifies the MAF meter reading to the factory ecu. By adjusting the setting up or down, you are telling the ecu the engine is getting more or less air than it really is so the ecu will add or take away fuel accordingly. You just adjust it to achieve the correct fuel mixture.

nigma · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by TRBOTSI

That's not how it works, the ecu still sees a certain amount of air and adds fuel accordingly, no matter what injectors you have.

oh ya... now tell me how stock ecu will know what size injectors you have ? ecu calculates not amount of fuel but injection puls length that is primary based on air mas signals... and there is no way it will depend on the injector size (unles you have programmable ecu and can change setings on it) so when you have larger injectors with same puls width you'll have more fuel injected then with stock injectors
that also coresponds to fuel preasure unles ecu bases its injection pulse width not only on air mas but also on fuel preasure but... in our case thats not how it is working

air mas sensor is the primary sensor for calculations (in open loop mode) while in closed loop mode when cruising ecu can make adjusmenst and is able to handle even 40% difference is injector size

but thats only when cruising

SPEEDY · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by tqlla
So how much boost should I run?

About the tuning, I just put the car together, so AAM didnt want to push the car too much since the car barely ran on the way up there. Also THE car was on an AWD dyno, so the numbers are going to be lower.

I think your #'s are decent for just 18 psi and it being tested on an awd dyno. A fwd with your same mods and same boost setting would be right at the 300whp mark. Crank that boost on up to about 22 to 23 psi and with some great tuning I bet your numbers will significantly increase. Good luck!!

jw · Jan 1, 2003

For those that think when you have 660 injectors, you should lean it out to -50%. This calculation is WRONG. It should be around the ballpark of -32%. Even -32% is just a ballpark figure that should be taken with a grain of salt. Depending on your base fuel pressure and your other mods (such as hacked MAS, etc), you would start off with -25% and work from there. Use a logger. Tune with timing and knock sums instead of stock O2 reading. They are not good to be used for tuning purposes.

As for the comment on ARP studs, wow, the statement of "why not just lift the head, install a new Mitsu steel shim head gasket and be done with it?" sound so simple. I supposed you are capable of doing timing belt job in 2 hours? So, tell me how many hours you can get what you said done and not screw anything up.
Btw, why metal HG where stock composite can do 30psi with no problem?

1_vicious_gsx · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by jw

As for the comment on ARP studs, wow, the statement of "why not just lift the head, install a new Mitsu steel shim head gasket and be done with it?" sound so simple. I supposed you are capable of doing timing belt job in 2 hours? So, tell me how many hours you can get what you said done and not screw anything up.
Btw, why metal HG where stock composite can do 30psi with no problem?

I made that comment because first off removing the bolts one at a time and replacing them with studs is the wrong thing to do anyway. I wouldn't do it. But if that's what he's going to do, why take a chance with the old headgasket. It's been torqued down once already with miles on it. I never said it was going to be easy. But it would be the best thing to do if he doesn't want to remove everthing else to get the head off. If you seperate the turbo from the exhaust manifold you should be able to slide a headgasket in & out from the front of the car (with a couple of people holding the head off the block). You would have to take the timing belts off to do it. The only real way to do it correctly though, is to just take the head off. As far as which headgasket to use, from what I've read, it seems as if the people who are planning to turn up the boost go with the steel shim type. If the composite type will hold, then use it.

jdmawd · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by tqlla
Hi all, I have a 1999 Mitsu GSX. I just went to the dyno today. After tuning the car, here are my Fuel Settings.

-38 -28 1k
-36 -28 2k
-40 -34 3k
-40 -40 3.5k
-40 -40 4k
-34 -48 5k
-34 -48 6k
-34 -49 7k

My first question, why are the settings sooo low. I spoke with Mike and he says it still runs rich? I dont understand.

Here are my dyno results.
@16psi 234.9HP 234.7TQ
@18psi 266.0HP 257.4TQ

Should I be dissappointed? Maybe I am just used to seeing numbers from Vr-4s(330 on stock Turbos) and NA-T 3000GTs(250 with low boost on 9Bs). Cause I am a little dissappointed.

ETE32 T3/T4 turbo
3inch metal intake
Accel 8mm wires
HKS Iridium plugs -.028
660cc injectors
Greddy FMIC
Alum radiator
Apexi SAFC
Hi flow fuel Pump
HKS EVC IV
Greddy EGT Guag
Greddy Boost Guage
Greddy S BOV
3 inch N1 exhaust
EVO o2 sensor housing

Your boost level is low, thats part of the reason the dyno numbers are low. You should have no problem running 22-23 psi with that setup on pump. Just add boost slow and log every run. You cant see knock with your logger. But you can look for areas of very low timing. Also frequently pull the intake and check the compressor wheel for shaft play. Mine died at 1500 miles. Dont really worry about it, just keep tabs on it. my car felt like a land yacht at 18 psi. you will like 22 a lot better

nigma · Jan 1, 2003

Originally posted by jw
For those that think when you have 660 injectors, you should lean it out to -50%. This calculation is WRONG. It should be around the ballpark of -32%. Even -32% is just a ballpark figure that should be taken with a grain of salt. Depending on your base fuel pressure and your other mods (such as hacked MAS, etc), you would start off with -25% and work from there. Use a logger. Tune with timing and knock sums instead of stock O2 reading. They are not good to be used for tuning purposes.

if this messaged is addressed to me then you missundertud me... i'v ment to say this 50% aditional injected fuel not air mas sensor -50%
and it is very easy to calculate how much you should change air mas sensor signal by simple formula (1 - OFI/NFI) * 100%
for example changing stock 450cc/min to 660cc/min:
(1 - 450/660) * 100% ~= 31.8 %
this is the % that should be taken off the air mas signal
in order to maintain stock amount of fuel injected but tuning is a must to do. and a danger of leaning out is hi so starting from -25% is a good idea
so in this particular case JW is absolutely right

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ETA32 Should I be dissappointed in my Dyno numbers? Also, fuel ?

tqlla

larryd

tqlla

2-0turbo

CBgst

tqlla

TRBOTSI

nigma

TRBOTSI

tqlla

1_vicious_gsx

2-0turbo

1_vicious_gsx

2-0turbo

2-0turbo

1_vicious_gsx

1_vicious_gsx

tqlla

1_vicious_gsx

nigma

SPEEDY

jw

1_vicious_gsx

jdmawd

nigma

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