Hey guys, can you give me a list of topics that come up regularly here in this particular forum that should be in our FAQ? It would help if you typed out the title, and then found a thread that has the related discussion going on. I'll be able to get it added.

Thanks!

The issues that arise for 1Gs and 2Gs are often quite different, so my first suggestion is to keep them separate. I apologize in advance for not knowing how to fetch URLs to give you pointers to threads. But I'd be willing to write a summary, if that would help.

Camber

In my two weeks on the board, the most frequent issue for 2Gs seems to be front camber adjustment after lowering the car. I've gotten into some trouble on this, since excessive front camber on a lowered 2G means - to me - that the car was lowered too far. People seem to take great offense when I point this out, often telling me that I'm going off on a tangent.

There's a nasty tension between lowering the car because you think it looks good and getting the car to handle better. If you lower a 2G by the appropriate amount, then you will not have excessive front camber. In fact, if you're really serious about handling, even after lowering a 2G the right amount, you will still be looking for ways to get more front camber.

Rear camber is not such a big deal since it is so easy to fix. We don't want more - we always want less - and it's easy to space out the upper arms.

Tire Wear

This is mostly caused by toe, not camber. You can run -2.5* camber if you also run zero toe. That's all that really needs to be said.

Tire and Wheel Size

A lot of people seem to want to wedge wide tires onto skinny wheels. A lot of people seem to want to run 18" or 19" wheels when they don't have the huge brakes that would make this necessary. It needs to be recognized that many cosmetic mods will actually lower performance. For a street-driven 2G, there really isn't that much of a question, in my mind. If you want the speedo to be accurate: 235/45/17 on a 17x8 with an offset around +42mm. If you want the car to perform a bit better: 245/40/17 on a 17x8 or 17x8.5 with an offset around +40mm. If you're really serious and run super-high springs rates for racing, but don't have huge brakes, then your streets can be 245/45/16 on a 16x8 or 16x8.5, which allows you to use bigger sidewalls to absorb more of the road.

Coilovers vs Lowering Springs

This is a red herring. The real issues are (1) the spring rates (plus whether they are linear or progressive) and (2) the height of the car (not only relative to the ground, but also relative to the length of the shock bodies ... i.e., available suspension travel).

Whether or not the springs come with adjustable perches is not a big deal (although it makes it easier to tune the car, of course). As long as the perches are made well, you'll be fine.

To a large extent, who made the springs is also not a big deal. Yes, there are some springs that are not only less likely to sag but have a guarantee, but it isn't often as issue. The fact that vendors don't list the spring rates (and sometimes don't know them when you call), so that the discussions on the board often ignore this critical factor makes them less useful than they could be.

Shocks

The first question here has to be "how much are you going to spend?" If the answer limits you to OTS shocks, then the second question is "what's more important: ride or handling?" From there the decision is easy, as long as you keep the spring rates in mind. (It's a long road to that decision, if you want the details, but there isn't a lot of debate.)

But that brings us to the last issue that really doesn't get talked about enough.

Planning

So many problems can be avoided, in my opinion, if you spend some time to plan in advance what you're doing. This requires that you first be honest with yourself about what you are trying to do. The answer that "I want the car to handle, look cool, ride like a Caddy, and all cost about $500" needs to laughed at. Seriously. It's just too far out of touch to be honestly dealt with.

If you try to mod a 2G's suspension in a piece-meal fashion, then you need to ready for intermediate stages that are sub-optimal. If you keep changing one thing to be the best possible for the rest of the system, then you will probably have to replace that new part when you upgrade something else. Have a plan and either save up for the whole thing or be ready to drive a car that is set up incorrectly as you add the parts. Trust that when it's all done it will work and you will save a lot of time and headache.

- Jtoby

Great - this is good info. I can keep the 1G and 2G discussions separate, that won't be a problem. What I'd need next are the links to the discussions so I can point users to them. All you have to do is find a relevant discussion thread, click on it to open it, then look in the Address bar of your browser. Highlight the whole address that shows up in that bar, and right-click. There will be an option to "copy". Then come back to this thread and post the link (to do so, you just right click and choose "paste") in the reply.

First, I love the idea of keeping the 1G and 2G seperate seeing as how they have different set-ups. Also keeping AWD and FWD seperate would be very nice as well.

Also I have searched this site a lot trying to find answers to things without much luck and think they should be included in a FAQ:
1) How to properly adjust a rear sway bar.
2) How to set up for understeer or oversteer.
3) Best way to set tension on a strut bar and sway bar during installation if that even matters. I hear it does, and I also hear it does not, I'd like a good answer.
4) The effects, advantages and disadvantages of suspention ties/straps on the front springs.
5) Optimal places to brace the underside of the chassis.
6) And most of all, the do's and don'ts of modifiying a FWD suspension. I know this is a loaded question and would need to be split into different categories such as street/drag/track/autox and whatever else, but it would very helpful to me and I'm sure others as well that are interested in learning more about suspension set-ups.

a good description/explanation of OFFSET and the useable offset ranges for all gens of cars would be useful. Also how to pick which offset would work with a particular size of wheel and tire combo. That question comes up way too much.

The "DSM Wheel and Tire FAQ" web page that we discussed hosting here several months ago would be a good start. I still have the source code that I copied from the site if you need it since the real site doesn't appear to be up any more. I also may still have the authors' e-mail giving us (you) permission to host it, but I'm not sure.

I am running Enkie LM1 18X8 5-114.3 35 offset with 225/40/18 Nitto Neo Gen II tires, coilovers are set so the tires are just under the fender and a camber kit was installed so the camber is in spec! No rubbing on the fender and I don't know exactly how far the rear upper controle arm is from the tire but i would gess about an inch! Everything is nice with this setup! All tires and wheels are diffrent but hopefully this info will be helpful to somebody!

How about optimal setups for different types of driving...

Font shocks(compression and rebound rates)
Drag
Rally
AutoX

Rear shocks(compression and rebound retes)
Drag
Rally
AutoX

Font springs(rates)
Drag
Rally
AutoX

Rear springs(rates)
Drag
Rally
AutoX


Something along those lines...Basically a chart showing the recommended setups at each corner for each type of racing. Also separate FWD and AWD.

How about including the largest tire/wheel combinations (for 15 16 and 17" rims) while keeping speedometer accuracy? That's what I'm searching for right now in fact.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/macross/2Gfitment.html

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/macross/offsetFAQ.html

Contains most of the info I referred to in my previous post.

Really would it be safe for any one to post numbers here. Especially as "recommended". I do not recommend ANY settings.

BUT, as 92redman says "different types of driving" as in different styles, comes into play. As well as how close to the edge is my autox car, compared to what I'm going to tell someone across the country that "thinks" he drives well. Call Ground Control for spring rates. Even then they will be conservative. Even if you ask them for extreme setting they will probably be conservative and set for predicted understeer. As some officer in the Marines once said, "you can't handle the truth" So we will lie.

Settings I've seen on 2g AWD's
RM sways
Koni Yellows
a few poly bushings
shock tower bars
500fr 400 rear is also common.
Toe straight all around.
This is >not< my setting but close. If I tell you my settings... I'll have to let the air out of your tires. i'll just say this. My car oversteers quite nicely. With the above setting, the famous David Hobbs saying "understeers like a pig" comes to mind.

It is not really stiffness that matters other than 550 is max for Koni Y.
I am not getting into stiffer is better etc. It is the ratio that matters more.

Scott

Originally posted by 92redman
How about optimal setups for different types of driving...

Font shocks(compression and rebound rates)
Drag
Rally
AutoX

Rear shocks(compression and rebound retes)
Drag
Rally
AutoX

Font springs(rates)
Drag
Rally
AutoX

Rear springs(rates)
Drag
Rally
AutoX


Something along those lines...Basically a chart showing the recommended setups at each corner for each type of racing. Also separate FWD and AWD.

Click to expand...

I race on road courses so any info on the best set up for sharp corners etc would be very helpful.

Inwo said:

How about including the largest tire/wheel combinations (for 15 16 and 17" rims) while keeping speedometer accuracy? That's what I'm searching for right now in fact.

Click to expand...

There is a simple formula for figuring out what tire size is needed on different sized rims that will allow you to keep an acurate speedometer. Tread width x aspect ratio x 2 x .0396 + rim diameter= rolling diameter of the tire. An example would be 205/55r16=24.9298 inches. This was determined by taking 205 (the tread width in millemeters) X .55 (the aspect ratio or height) X 2 X .0396 +16 (the rim size). If some of you are wondering why the number is .55 and not just 55 it is because the second number in a tire size is a percentage not an absolute size. This means that this tire is 55 percent as tall as it is wide. If any of you are wondering what the R in the tire size is, it just means radial construction. If you stay close to the original size by adjusting these numbers like 215/50r17 it will have a minimal effect on the diameter of the tire and yes I know that the stock GSX size is a half inch bigger than the GS-T size.

Also, I must call BS on that "camber won't wear tires and toe will" comment. There are three alignment angles and two of the cause tire wear and two will cause pulling except in extreme cases. The camber seting if too negative will cause inner edge wear on a tire and outer edge wear if too positive. Total camber will cause a pulling also. Total camber being the sum of the camber measurments on the same axle. Caster will cause a pull if total caster is off in one direction but will not cause tire wear. Toe setting causes tire wear but in patches and will feel like waves in the tires as you rub the trear from front to back. Except for in extreme cases toe will not cause a pull because the steering wheel will compensate for this.

I hope this helps.

Here are the current suspension FAQS's

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169437


Please add to them if you have experience and please suggest anything that isn't already covered.

I know that the main heading on this tread was for Suspension FAQ but can I make a suggestion since this is in the handling section of the forum? Sorry for imposing but wasn't sure where to write this.

I've been searching for info on brakes and there seems to be a lot of different answers and ideas about slotted and drilled rotors.

Drilled- seems like everyone is scared of drilled lately cause they think it's going to cause your rotors to crack. Then some say that's only if the rotors are going to be abused (hardcore road racing) and not just on a dailydriver with occasional track use. They may or may not help with dissipating hear or gasses.

Slotted- Some say they help release gasses. Others say it doesn't help with gasses it only helps clean build-up off of the pads which goes with slotted will extend the life of the pads. Others say that they eat the pads more. May or may not help with braking in the rain.

Dimples- I don't know much about these other than one vendor put them as faux drilled. Just for looks but wont cause them to crack. Some people think that they are actually functionable.

I'm probably missing a few myths and facts but this is what I've got just from my week of searching.

Any way to come up with a write up to end all of the confusion?

Is there one out there that I missed? (hope not so I don't look too stupid)

Thanks.

p.s.

To the founders, wisemen and moderators-

You guys do a hell of a job keeping all us on line with our goals, needs and just plain good information on our cars. I don't think of myself as anything close to an expert, but from this website and everything in it, I feel more confident in doing my own work on my car. I feel this had been the best web site hands down for a car forum. Not to mention the one stop shopping with parts and vendors. With everyone working on the FAQ, they are awesome. Tech articles are top notch.

Since there is no applause guy, I will just sing praises!

Bump

What about a chart the shows the different spring rates for the various springs that are sold for 2Gs? That way people have a direct comparison of what can be purchased without searching through dozens of posts for specific information.