95 TSI won't start, I think I know why but I am asking you.

flashburn02 · Mar 29, 2007

Hey guys. I have been fiddling with my 95 TSI FWD for months now, between breaks in the weather. My car will not start. I do not have fuel or spark entering the cylinders. HOWEVER, I do have proper voltage leading into both the coil pack and the injectors. Something is limiting the system from turning the plugs or the injecters on.

I have tested my CAS and my MFI relays. They are both operating to specs. I tested my coil pack and it falls into specs as well. The CAS is sending proper voltages and my timing is spot on. All my fuses are good as I did continuity tests on all of them. I also tested continuity through the MFI relay wiring to the injecters and the coil pack, they both check out.

The only thing I can think of, that I cannot test, is that my computer is malfunctioning. I have already pulled the computer to look for busted caps but there is no physical damage viewable.

I have two questions: Did I miss something to test (chances are I didn't think to list it but did it) And is there anyone in the Akron/Cleveland area with a spare computer or donor computer that they would let me try it in my car.

We all know computers for these cars are very very expensive so I do not want to buy a new one simply to learn that the computer isn't the problem. Can anyone help me out? I will be happy to supply beer and pizza! This is driving me nuts.

Also: If anyone has a sensor question, PM me because I know how to test all of them! I have been so thorough that I even picked up a typo in the Haynes Manual!

pmanaresi · Mar 29, 2007

i have a 97 awd ecu, it is at my brothers house in kettering Ohio.... i think thats near akron. I guess you could hook up with him and get it from him and if it fixed your problem i could sell it to you for like 70 bucks or somethin... PM me if this interests you

mitsured420 · Mar 29, 2007

This may sound silly but did you test the compression?timing might have jumped.how does it sound when you turn it over?slow or fast?uneven?i know you checked it but in my experience i found in most cars not only DSMs,no spark and no fuel=bad cas.if the pcm cant read the angle of your cam/crank it wont even try to supply spark or fuel. hope this helps

flashburn02 · Mar 29, 2007

pmanaresi said:
i have a 97 awd ecu, it is at my brothers house in kettering Ohio.... i think thats near akron. I guess you could hook up with him and get it from him and if it fixed your problem i could sell it to you for like 70 bucks or somethin... PM me if this interests you

PM is in the mail...

mitsured420 said:
This may sound silly but did you test the compression?timing might have jumped.how does it sound when you turn it over?slow or fast?uneven?i know you checked it but in my experience i found in most cars not only DSMs,no spark and no fuel=bad cas.if the pcm cant read the angle of your cam/crank it wont even try to supply spark or fuel. hope this helps

Actually I did a compression test, it goes cyl 1-4 as follows: 180, 60, 135, 145. This perplexes me a bit. So I checked to see where the cylinders were at top dead center, to make sure timing was still okay, and they are matched. I know I need to investigate my head due to the compression results but the car should still start even with funky compression. The CAS is outputting the proper voltages as if it is recognizing the timing correctly. Also the cam gears have timing marks that are spot on, so I am most sure the timing is ok. I think my compression tests might reflect the fact that the car sat outside in the cold for sometime with no oil moving through the motor becaus it couldn't start.

Also note that the car ran fine before winter. But my lower intercooler pipe blew off while driving it. The car stalled, I started it again and it stalled after driving it again. So I pulled over, saw the pipe hanging off. Reattached it and started and drove no problem. I got home and parked the car for several days. I went out to start it again and it wouldn't fire.

jeremy19984g63 · Mar 29, 2007

You can't use the 97 ecu in the 95, because your injector cycle will be inverted. This is why when people put the 95 eprom in newer cars, the new chip changes the injector cycle back. This is all because of the different CAS used on the 95.

flashburn02 · Mar 29, 2007

Let me refine my term when I say CAS. The motor has two sensors that many people refer to as CAS. The upper one is the cam angle sensor and the lower one is the crank position sensor. Which are you refering to when you say CAS?

flashburn02 · Mar 29, 2007

jeremy19984g63 said:
You can't use the 97 ecu in the 95, because your injector cycle will be inverted. This is why when people put the 95 eprom in newer cars, the new chip changes the injector cycle back. This is all because of the different CAS used on the 95.

Ah your killing me but thanks for saving me some more headache!

jeremy19984g63 · Mar 29, 2007

It also inverts the coil firing order!

jeremy19984g63 · Mar 29, 2007

I am refering to the cam angle sensor!

flashburn02 · Mar 30, 2007

I can't find the CAS on my 95 so I started a new thread here to identify it.

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151160439#post151160439

This might seem like a violation of policy but I think we need a photographic evidence thread for the mysterious CAS on a 95. I can't find it and I have genuinely been over the entire engine.

housegsx · Mar 30, 2007

jeremy19984g63 said:
You can't use the 97 ecu in the 95, because your injector cycle will be inverted. This is why when people put the 95 eprom in newer cars, the new chip changes the injector cycle back. This is all because of the different CAS used on the 95.

The inverted injector cycle shouldn't matter. I've put a 95 eprom ecu in my car and it ran fine. But yes, he would have to swap the plugs around.

jeremy19984g63 · Mar 30, 2007

housegsx said:
The inverted injector cycle shouldn't matter. I've put a 95 eprom ecu in my car and it ran fine. But yes, he would have to swap the plugs around.

That is just what i have been told. I've never tried it myself!

The eprom you used was it stock or chipped? I know that when they program the new chips, they fix the injector cycle.

flashburn02 · Mar 30, 2007

Okay so according to this thread:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=151160597#post151160597

I have tested the CAS and it tests successfully. However the crank position sensor is not changing voltages like it should on the signal line. Could this be my problem? Or does the CPS not need to alternate voltages?

housegsx · Mar 30, 2007

jeremy19984g63 said:
The eprom you used was it stock or chipped? I know that when they program the new chips, they fix the injector cycle.

The eprom ecu was stock. I was testing it in my car to verify it worked before sending it out to be socketed. Here is how I knew it would work straight from dsmlink.com

- What does CAS inversion mean?

For 1G DSMLink, nothing. For the 2G guys, the '95-'96 style Cam Angle Sensor (CAS) sends out a signal that's electrically "inverted" from other DSM cam sensors (1G or '97+ style). When you put a '95 ECU into a car with a non-95 CAS, the ECU ends up swapping the firing order of the injectors. In most cases, this produces very little noticeable difference in drive quality. But we offer the option to invert the CAS signal anyway just in case. You can selectively invert this signal with the DSMLink software as you wish. You will still need to swap your spark wires, though. We can't control spark firing order in the EPROM at crank time. So even with CAS inversion, you still have to swap plug wire 1 with 2 and 3 with 4.

flashburn02 · Mar 31, 2007

So can you use a 97 ECU in a 95 if I change the plug wire order? I am a little confused.

DJYoshaBYD · Mar 31, 2007

yes, but you will have to invert the cas signal and swap the wires

flashburn02 · May 1, 2007

OK guys, finally fixed this problem over the weekend and I wanted to fill everyone in. Firstly, thanks for the help with it all!

Secondly, the problem was a bad crank angle sensor. It was reading 5v constant signal so the computer couldn't get a reading proper enough to send spark to the motor.

The solution: Use a 1g cas, do the wiring harness trick, and the machine runs like its brand new! I bought a logger to get the timing down, but you really don't need it. I didn't even use it and my car runs better than it ever has. I am running 13 psi and it works amazing!

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95 TSI won't start, I think I know why but I am asking you.

flashburn02

pmanaresi

mitsured420

flashburn02

jeremy19984g63

flashburn02

flashburn02

jeremy19984g63

jeremy19984g63

flashburn02

housegsx

jeremy19984g63

flashburn02

housegsx

flashburn02

DJYoshaBYD

flashburn02

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