Get the evo III manifold, or if you want a good upgrade for a cheap price, just pick up a 2g manifold. Tubular manifolds tend to crack at the welds because of the weight of the turbo hanging off them.

Here is a good thread to read through.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244330&highlight=1g/2g+manifold

If you are using a Mitsu style housing turbo, then get either the Evo III or 2G manifold, as those bolt right up, flow nice, and won't lose heat (thermal efficiency, that's what makes your turbo spool) and crack. If you want to go with a tubular manifold, make a brace that supports the turbo and manifold so the added stress and vibrations won't crack the welds on the manifold.

My vote is definately for the cast manifold. An EVOIII manifold will flow better than both the 1G and the 2G so I would go with that choice. The tubular manifolds seem to be more trouble than they are worth.

yes i also agree with everyone else, EVOIII and 2G are probably your best options, also Slow Boy Racing makes a cast iron manifold that i hear flows better than a 2g, but also you can get a 2g manifold pretty cheap and just port it...just my $0.02

chris

Im going to go with the GT Manifold off turbochargers.com, its already ported out and its only $145 heres a link http://www.turbochargers.com/store/...d=121&osCsid=429a2437e5982bbe34dd6db0e9be24d8

OverBoostinGST said:

Im going to go with the GT Manifold off turbochargers.com, its already ported out and its only $145 heres a link http://www.turbochargers.com/store/...d=121&osCsid=429a2437e5982bbe34dd6db0e9be24d8

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Yes, this is a good buy, i know a few people running this and i am running this myself, cant beat the price. When i got it it was $170 though now its even cheaper.

Ok, i am looking into getting a new exhaust manifold for my stock 1st Gen Turbo Talon. I just was wondering what i should go with for more power and for practicality. I am really looking at the Evo III Ported Exhaust manifold or maybe headers? I see performance gains for both, but which would be more suitable for all year driving? Any help would be appreciated.

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I'd say, save your money and buy either an evo 3 or 2g manifold or ported 2g manifold, b/c they will flow well up to and over your probable HP projections, and you won't be dissabpointed. But I wouldn't pay a buttload for a brand new, already ported evo 3 manifold, unless you want too, but it would probably be the last manifold you would want to buy if you are staying w/ a mitsu style flanged turbo. The evo 3 ported is hands down the best log style manifold for mitsu style flanged turbos, so if you want to buy that one or find one or port one it's up to you? I have a ported to heck 2g manifold and it flows real well on my 50 trim. I have an extra one if you want it? PM me and we can talk, but other wise, it's about how much you are willing and want to spend too?

I'd say look long term, what are your horespower goals, where do you want to be with you horespower when your car is "done". and buy a manifold that will support that Horsepower.
low horsepower = stock 2g
high horsepower = aftermarket evo3 style ported
super high horsepower = tubular header, search for a good quality brand.

syclone said:

I'd say look long term, what are your horespower goals, where do you want to be with you horespower when your car is "done". and buy a manifold that will support that Horsepower.
low horsepower = stock 2g
high horsepower = aftermarket evo3 style ported
super high horsepower = tubular header, search for a good quality brand.

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A ported 2g manifold has ran 10's. So decide if you want to drop a ton of money on something newer, or spend ~$50 or so on a 2g.

low horsepower = stock 2g
high horsepower = aftermarket evo3 style ported

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Ok...heres the thing, a ported 2g, will flow like an unported evo 3 or dang well close and it can support very high HP numbers too, just do some searching around the forum and you will see for yourself. Now if you are going to a non-mitsu style flanged turbo then, yes a tubular will be your best and more than likely only bet, unless you find a HKS manifold which they don't make anymore that is cast. But to say that a 2g is for low HP is not totally correct. If you want to or find an evo 3 manifold for a good price then get it, but a well ported 2g will be more than enough, but like I said, it all depends on $$, preference and aspirations.

A ported 2g manifold has ran 10's. So decide if you want to drop a ton of money on something newer, or spend ~$50 or so on a 2g.

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Amen to that!!!

Like everyone said.. Here's some more food for thought though..
Dyno of Tubular vs Cast
http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G Tubular.JPG
http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G Tubular vs. Cast.JPG
http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno graphs/Evo-III-16G/Air Temp vs MAP.jpg
Done by slowboy racing..

SBR also offeres a cast manifold that they claim has larger runners and collector then the evo III.
http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=1891&

If moneys tight though you can pick up a 2g or EVOIII pretty cheap.

Are there any more advantages to an EVO III? Other than being able to port it out to make more flow than a ported 2g? Do i need to port out a 2g manifold to get decent flow? How much do you suppose it would run to do so?

The more and more you port out cast, the more likely it is to crack. You can do it yourself, here's some good information how:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213248
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186525
If you don't feel up to doing it, i'm sure theres some local DSMers that could, or a local exhaust shop might.

Oh and i forgot to add that i my future plans with my DSM are to eventually upgrade to a 16g and supporting mods. My exhaust will be at least 2.5" if any of this should sway anybody's opinion.

It depends on your money situation. I'm partial to tubular manifolds, but they are $$$. If you look at my above post with the dyno graphs, thats run on an 16g.

Oh and i forgot to add that i my future plans with my DSM are to eventually upgrade to a 16g and supporting mods. My exhaust will be at least 2.5" if any of this should sway anybody's opinion.

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Like blackbyrd said, if you have the money, then a nice DNP would help flow alot for the 16g, but is not needed and a ported 2g, evo3, or SBR cast will be more than enough for what it sounds like what you want.

so I'm no scientist but I figure that a ported cast evo manifold ceramic coated and heat wrapped with a heat shield is definitly going to keep the heat in the exhaust system and preserve more exhaust velocity.. on top of that.. I think that the distance to travel between exhaust port to turbo is less... however.. a tubular obviously flows better.... what would get you faster spool? I'm planning on going 50trim BB and I want to make my car spool as fast as possible, I don't like lag.. eventually I'll go stroker.. once the engine is done.. or probably before since it's got less than 60k mile original = )

95TalonOwner said:

Get the evo III manifold, or if you want a good upgrade for a cheap price, just pick up a 2g manifold. Tubular manifolds tend to crack at the welds because of the weight of the turbo hanging off them.

Here is a good thread to read through.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244330

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Thanks for providing that link. It saved me a few moments of my time. In addition, the tubular manifolds also tend to crack because they are not made for the abuses of daily driving, which is why cast is generally better for DD cars. What do I mean by "abuses of daily driving"? Well, I mean the constant heating-and-cooling cycles that the exhaust manifold goes through in any daily driven car. Driving to-and-fro, making pit stops here-and-there, and running errands are not what tubular manifolds were made for. Over time, the tubular manifolds will tend to fail more often than cast manifolds. Some people actually drive with tubular manifolds on a daily basis, but I would not recommend that.


EDIT: Regarding your second statement, read post #17 in the link below:


http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200574

perley03 said:

If you are using a Mitsu style housing turbo, then get either the Evo III or 2G manifold, as those bolt right up, flow nice, and won't lose heat (thermal efficiency, that's what makes your turbo spool) and crack.

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Please provide more detailed information (and links!) to support your statement.

perley03 said:

If you want to go with a tubular manifold, make a brace that supports the turbo and manifold so the added stress and vibrations won't crack the welds on the manifold.

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Right. Just make sure you know what you're doing. If not, take it to a trusted shop and explain what needs to be done.

awdtalontsi1992 said:

My vote is definately for the cast manifold. An EVOIII manifold will flow better than both the 1G and the 2G so I would go with that choice. The tubular manifolds seem to be more trouble than they are worth.

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Three sentences that I completely agree with.

DSMunknown said:

Thanks for providing that link. It saved me a few moments of my time. In addition, the tubular manifolds also tend to crack because they are not made for the abuses of daily driving, which is why cast is generally better for DD cars. What do I mean by "abuses of daily driving"? Well, I mean the constant heating-and-cooling cycles that the exhaust manifold goes through in any daily driven car. Driving to-and-fro, making pit stops here-and-there, and running errands are not what tubular manifolds were made for. Over time, the tubular manifolds will tend to fail more often than cast manifolds. Some people actually drive with tubular manifolds on a daily basis, but I would not recommend that.


EDIT: Regarding your second statement, read post #17 in the link below:


http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200574





Please provide more detailed information (and links!) to support your statement.





Right. Just make sure you know what you're doing. If not, take it to a trusted shop and explain what needs to be done.






Three sentences that I completely agree with.

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Here is the info you wanted from your PM

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=turbo.htm&url=http://members.aol.com/TurboHonda/info.htmlA turbocharger, however, is driven by the thermal energy of the exhaust gases of the engine. With non-turbocharged vehicles, these gases are simply discharged out of the engine as quickly and efficiently as possible, wasting a surprising amount of energy in the form of noise and heat. A turbocharger uses some of that energy (which would otherwise be wasted) to drive its
compressor, without the attendant horsepower loss of a crankdriven system.

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Click HereAfter the fuel is burned in the cylinder it is exhausted during the cylinder’s exhaust stroke in to the exhaust manifold (5)
The high temperature gas then continues on to the turbine (6). The turbine creates backpressure on the engine which means engine exhaust pressure is higher than atmospheric pressure
A pressure and temperature drop occurs (expansion) across the turbine (7), which harnesses the exhaust gas’ energy to provide the power necessary to drive the compressor.

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VTG
Scroll down to VTG and read. They say that this technology is mostly ignored in gasoline engines due to the higher EGT than diesels, thus making this system useless because of the flow of exhaust. The higher the exhaust temperature, they higher the amount of energy is used in turning the turbine wheel. Its simply physics, look up thermal effieciency.
As the exhaust gas is being pushed across the turbine wheel from exhaust pulses, it cools, therefore providing more energy to drive the turbine wheel. The higher the temperature, the more energy is harnessed from the hotter air cooling down. As it cools, the air becomes much denser, therefore more volume; the more volume, the more energy is harnessed and that energy is what is turning the turbine blade.
Take an example of the turbo setups on the Corvette's. They are using turbo's mounted past the rear axle. But they use smaller turbine housings to spool the turbos due to the lower EGT at the back of the car. Why? Because the farther away from the heat source, the more cooler the exhaust is going to be.
I'm not going to argue with you that heat does not have a factor in driving the turbine wheel. It just does. Do your research, just like I had to when i first wanted to know how turbochargers work. If you don't believe me, then ask a Physicist. I have taken over 2 semesters of Physics in college and high school. Use the formula, do the math. Heat is the key ingredient when it comes to turbos.
I'm done now. I've stated my facts and knowledge that I've encountered over the past few years, and I backed them with facts.

I'm planning on going 50trim BB and I want to make my car spool as fast as possible, I don't like lag.. eventually I'll go stroker.. once the engine is done.. or probably before since it's got less than 60k mile original = )

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P.S. I have a ported 2g manifold w/ my RS49T and it spools awesome! Evo 3 ported manifold would be the obvious best stock manifold to get, but I haven't had any problems w/ the 2g ported manifold as far as spool time though either. But time and again the ported 2g has put guys into low ET's, which prob means, thats all you need, but if ou get a good deal on an evo3 manifold, then go for it! Depends again on your $$$ flow too.

blackbyrd said:

Like everyone said.. Here's some more food for thought though..
Dyno of Tubular vs Cast
http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G Tubular.JPG
http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno graphs/Evo-III-16G/E316G Tubular vs. Cast.JPG
http://www.slowboyracing.com/downloads/dyno graphs/Evo-III-16G/Air Temp vs MAP.jpg

.

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Nice comparision.

Unless you're willing to shell out some serious cash for a quality tubular exhaust manifold, stay away from a tubular exhaust manifold (please, don't call them headers folks) your 1G is stock and you'll be using it year round. Dollar per dollar pick up a 2G exhaust manifold, it's stronger and flows better than the 1G's and less prone to cracking. You can port it for more flow, and you can still use the heat shield (use the heat shield).

VanIsleDSM said:

so I'm no scientist but I figure that a ported cast evo manifold ceramic coated and heat wrapped with a heat shield is definitly going to keep the heat in the exhaust system and preserve more exhaust velocity.. on top of that.. I think that the distance to travel between exhaust port to turbo is less... however.. a tubular obviously flows better.... what would get you faster spool? I'm planning on going 50trim BB and I want to make my car spool as fast as possible, I don't like lag.. eventually I'll go stroker.. once the engine is done.. or probably before since it's got less than 60k mile original = )

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stroker, ballbearing, a little bit higher compression,(not that compression helps spool)
but will feel lag free !

In my opinion I dont recommend ballbearing or stroker for the high powered fwd guys especially without lsd.

I plan on getting the evo3 manifold, maybe the one of slow boy but Ive heard bad comments about their shipping times. They want 50 dollars more for porting, I could port it myself but do they use some special machine to port the entire manifold much better than you could have done it yourself? If not id just port it myself.

Oh and heres a thought ( any of you familur with cryotreating? www.subzerocryogenics.com ) Well what about cryotreating the cracking prone tubular manifold for more strength? Because honestly Id rather see a tubular manifold under the hood, and I hear those increase spool speed because of the angle of the exhaust flow towards turbine wheel?